Trying to find "the Christ as God's son" in Old Te

[WretchedMan]

Hebrew Scripture in da House

Orion was looking for a verse in the Hebrew Scriptures, Heidi.

My best answer, Orion, to all your questions would be Isaiah 9:6

The son described in this (Hebrew) verse is also described as Almighty God and the Everlasting Father.

I believe the revelation of the Trinity is a way for we humans to understand the manifold complexity of God. God IS (percieved by us as) 3 persons, but God is also, biblically and logically, ONE. It is an anthropomorphic condescension on God's part to help our tiny minds understand his Nature and his Character, and since I am both a father and a son myself, it gives me some small insight into the Nature and Character of God.

I hope it gives you insight as well.

 

[Orion]

WretchedMan, I fully agree that God tries to give us insights into "His" true nature (I put "his" in quotes because God has no gender, but is another example of trying to make us understand that nature which God is). Thus, "Father", "Son" is given to benefit us. For there to be a son, there needs to be a birth, an offspring of the original, usually taking a masculine and feminine of the same species. Since there is nothing of that nature going on in Heaven (. . . probably), and for US to understand characteristics of God, there has to be some sort of analogy given that is understandable, at least as best as CAN be understood.

Do you understand, because I'm not sure I do! : :

 

[Guest]

Forgive me, but is it for us to know the complexities of God?

 

[Orion]

Forgive me, but is it for us to know the complexities of God?

How, then, are we ever supposed to be able TO fully love that which is difficult to really fully know? Are we supposed to have "faith" in how we are supposed to love God too? :-?

 

[Guest]

How, then, are we ever supposed to be able TO fully love that which is difficult to really fully know? Are we supposed to have "faith" in how we are supposed to love God too? :-?

My children do not fully understand that ways of being an adult - yet my children fully love me.

 

[Orion]

My children do not fully understand that ways of being an adult - yet my children fully love me.

On a purely human level, a child may love a dad who ends up abusing them. A husband may fully love a wife, even when she is out having an affair.

That to say, TRUE love may not be possible unless the person is TRULY known. Is it "blind love" when this happens outside of truly knowing the person? Is it as real to love a person without fully knowing them as opposed to someone who fully knows that person?

 

[WretchedMan]

Orion: "for there to be a son, there needs to be a birth, an offspring of the original, usually taking a masculine and feminine of the same species. Since there is nothing of that nature going on in Heaven (. . . probably), and for US to understand characteristics of God, there has to be some sort of analogy given that is understandable, at least as best as CAN be understood."

You seem to have a hyper-literal preconception here. The meaning of "father" and "son" are relational, and only incidently genetic/procreative.

There are "biological" children who who were abandonded by their "sire", who say "He is not my father".

There are people, adopted or otherwise, who call men with whom they have no biological relationship - "Father" or "Pop". I call my Father-in-law "Dad", and I mean it now in the same way I do my genetic father.

The analogy is understandable, unless you deconstruct the paradigm beyond recognition: "When did the Father's spermatazoa penetrate some undetermined Mother's ovum to form a divine zygote?",

How can the "son" in Isaiah 9:6 also be called the "Everlasting Father" and "Almighty God". I believe it is a description of the One God's Attributes, not His Ancestry.