Was Judas Iscariot ever 'saved'?

[handy]

He was a disciple, one of the 12. He was called 'apostle' by Jesus Himself. Luke 6:12-16

But was he ever a born-again believer?

I believe that he was a tare among the wheat, always the 'son of perdition' and never born-again.

What do others think? And why?

If he was born-again, did he lose his salvation?

 

[tim-from-pa]

I think he was bad from the get-go according to scriptural prophecy and Jesus' confirmation of it when he stated:

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

He was predestined to do what he did and personally, Jesus did not fit the concept of Messiah he had.

In the deeper sense, if you believe as I do, Judas represents the house of Judah who rejected Jesus. The rest of the dispersed tribes (the house of Israel) that became as Gentiles did not reject Jesus.

 

[Heidi]

He was a disciple, one of the 12. He was called 'apostle' by Jesus Himself. Luke 6:12-16

But was he ever a born-again believer?

I believe that he was a tare among the wheat, always the 'son of perdition' and never born-again.

What do others think? And why?

If he was born-again, did he lose his salvation?

No one was saved until Jesus died on the cross for our sins. And since Judas killed himself before ever repenting, then no, he was not saved.

 

[aj830]

No one was saved until Jesus died on the cross for our sins. And since Judas killed himself before ever repenting, then no, he was not saved.

But how do you know he didn't repent while he was falling to his death, realizing what he was doing at the last second? It might not be likely but he still could have, and I pray that he did.

 

[Heidi]

But how do you know he didn't repent while he was falling to his death, realizing what he was doing at the last second? It might not be likely but he still could have, and I pray that he did.

Because in Matthew 27:3-5, when Judas hanged himself, Jesus had not yet died to pay for our sins. So again, no one could have been saved before Jesus died for our sins. Jesus also verifies Judas's fate in John 17:12, "None of them has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that scripture would be fulfilled." And Jesus knows who's lost and who isn't.

 

[aj830]

Because in Matthew 27:3-5, when Judas hanged himself, Jesus had not yet died to pay for our sins. So again, no one could have been saved before Jesus died for our sins. Jesus also verifies Judas's fate in John 17:12, "None of them has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that scripture would be fulfilled." And Jesus knows who's lost and who isn't.

Yes but just because Jesus had not died doesn't mean he couldn't have been saved. Take John the Baptist, or any other prophet before Jesus, with your thought none of them could have been saved, correct? I just don't think it is our place to say who is in hell except Satan and his minions because you can never know if people repent in their heart even if right at the moment of death. I am not saying that Judas set a good example or anything but it is possible through the mercy of God that he was saved.

 

[Guest]

Yes but just because Jesus had not died doesn't mean he couldn't have been saved. Take John the Baptist, or any other prophet before Jesus, with your thought none of them could have been saved, correct? I just don't think it is our place to say who is in hell except Satan and his minions because you can never know if people repent in their heart even if right at the moment of death. I am not saying that Judas set a good example or anything but it is possible through the mercy of God that he was saved.

So how are you reconcilling that with John 17:12?

 

[tim-from-pa]

I agree with alonevoice and Heidi on this one. He was a vessel fit for destruction as sometimes God uses. It's sad, but true. Like I stated earlier, he represented on a grander scale the rejection of Jesus as Messiah from the house of Judah. We know that Jews as a whole are generally not saved because they rejected their Messiah. It has nothing to do with how good or bad they are. The same thing happens to everyone that rejects the Messiah.

 

[Heidi]

Yes but just because Jesus had not died doesn't mean he couldn't have been saved. Take John the Baptist, or any other prophet before Jesus, with your thought none of them could have been saved, correct? I just don't think it is our place to say who is in hell except Satan and his minions because you can never know if people repent in their heart even if right at the moment of death. I am not saying that Judas set a good example or anything but it is possible through the mercy of God that he was saved.

No it's not possible because Jesus says he wasn't and Jesus is our authority. So I'll go with Jesus.

 

[handy]

I started this thread because of this post on another thread:


Judas is an interesting case in Once Saved Always Saved.

I see Psalm 41 as a prophecy of Christ. It says:

[8] They say, "A deadly thing has fastened upon him;
he will not rise again from where he lies."
[9] Even my bosom friend in whom I trusted,
who ate of my bread, has lifted his heel against me.

Sorry, but I can't help seeing this passage as a prophecy about Judas. Of who the betrayer is at the last supper, Jesus says:

Mark.14
[20] He said to them, "It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me.

[18] And as they were at table eating, Jesus said, "Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me."
[19] They began to be sorrowful, and to say to him one after another, "Is it I?"
[20] He said to them, "It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me.

Now aren't all who are not saved enimies of Christ? How can one who is a trusted friend, be an enemy of Christ? How can God be fooled? Answer he can't and so at some point Judas was a friend and later became an enemy. Of course some of you might say that Judas was saved even with his sin.


Was Judas ever a friend?

 

[thessalonian]

Sorry, but I can't help seeing this passage as a prophecy about Judas. Of who the betrayer is at the last supper, Jesus says:

Seems pretty clear to me. How can you justify saying it is not a prophecy about Judas, except in your superimposing your own OSAS theology over it.

Was Judas ever a friend?

You've never seen a case where friends become non-freinds? Clearly your joking.

 

[handy]

Was Judas a friend though?

Long before the last supper, Jesus said this:

"Did I Myself no choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"
John 6:70

 

[thessalonian]

Was Judas a friend though?

Long before the last supper, Jesus said this:

"Did I Myself no choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"
John 6:70

That in fact was 1 year before the last supper. That is when John 6 occured. Evidently Judas had begun his fall then. He didn't say "one of you has always been a devil". The Apostles walked with Jesus for three years, so I don't think you have proven the case that Judas was never a friend of Jesus.

Did Judas not really get the power stated below?

[1] And he called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity.

 

[Heidi]

He was a disciple, one of the 12. He was called 'apostle' by Jesus Himself. Luke 6:12-16

But was he ever a born-again believer?

I believe that he was a tare among the wheat, always the 'son of perdition' and never born-again.

What do others think? And why?

If he was born-again, did he lose his salvation?

He couldn't have been born again because God didn't sent to the Holy Spirit until pentecost. John 16:7 says, "Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go I will send him to you." And of course, Judas died before Jesus did so he couldn't have become born again of the Holy Spirit.

And also Jesus said; "No one can snatch them out of my hand." He also said, "They (my true sheep) never follow a stranger. " -)

 

[thessalonian]

He couldn't have been born again because God didn't sent to the Holy Spirit until pentecost. John 16:7 says, "Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go I will send him to you." And of course, Judas died before Jesus did so he couldn't have become born again of the Holy Spirit.

And also Jesus said; "No one can snatch them out of my hand." He also said, "They (my true sheep) never follow a stranger. " -)

So Jesus preached salvation in John 3:16 but it wasn't available to them. They were out of luck. Nobody could have eternal life and so you have Jesus as a liar.

 

[Lewis]

And Judas also confessed to man rather than God of his sin' towards Jesus' before he hung himself. Because guess what" God would have forgiven him. And the Old Testament already had said that' he would turn on Yahshua. You know" I wonder if God made his heart hard' like the way he did Pharaoh' to serve His purpose. Because Yahshua had to die' to save us.

 

[thessalonian]

Now if we could find a group who believes we should confess to man INSTEAD of God he would have a point. :

 

[jgredline]

Heidi is correct here...From a theological point of view, none of the 12 were saved while traveling with Jesus...Peter even denied Jesus three times remember? Salvation was not available until after the Cross......In fact no one was saved until they received the Holy Spirit...I believe John 20 speaks of this...Now had Judas repented and I believe he could have (remember he felt remorse) then he would have been saved.....He would have been saved the same way OT saints are saved....Since we know that Judas was not saved, then we also know that he was never saved....

 

[handy]

I don't want to get too far off topic here, but let's deal with this question of whether or not any were saved prior to the cross.

God had His book of Life with the names of the saved written in it prior to the cross.

Jesus told the immoral woman who washed His feet with her hair, "Your sins have been forgiven. ... Your faith has saved you, go in peace." Luke 7:36-50

Lazarus rested upon Abraham's bosom rather than suffer in torment as the rich man did.

We know that Abraham, Moses, Joseph and others in the Old Testament were saved by their faith. The writer of Hebrews points to them to prove that it was always by faith that men were saved.

Whether men rested with Abraham until the time of the cross, or slept or were immediately in Paradise is probably a topic for a different discussion. For the purposes of this discussion, let us agree that before the cross, it was still imperative that any who came to God had to believe that He is and is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:8

Did Judas ever have that faith? Was his name ever recorded in the book of life, then struck out? Luke 10:20 Exodus 32:33 Psalm 69:28

As Thessalonian mentioned, Judas was one of the twelve who Jesus gave authority to cast out demons and heal the sick. Jesus had appointed him as an apostle.

I ask these questions because they hit at the heart of many of the issues that have divided the church over the ages. Issues such as once saved, always saved and predestination.

 

[Heidi]

I don't want to get too far off topic here, but let's deal with this question of whether or not any were saved prior to the cross.

God had His book of Life with the names of the saved written in it prior to the cross.

Jesus told the immoral woman who washed His feet with her hair, "Your sins have been forgiven. ... Your faith has saved you, go in peace." Luke 7:36-50

Lazarus rested upon Abraham's bosom rather than suffer in torment as the rich man did.

We know that Abraham, Moses, Joseph and others in the Old Testament were saved by their faith. The writer of Hebrews points to them to prove that it was always by faith that men were saved.

Whether men rested with Abraham until the time of the cross, or slept or were immediately in Paradise is probably a topic for a different discussion. For the purposes of this discussion, let us agree that before the cross, it was still imperative that any who came to God had to believe that He is and is a rewarder of those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:8

Did Judas ever have that faith? Was his name ever recorded in the book of life, then struck out? Luke 10:20 Exodus 32:33 Psalm 69:28

As Thessalonian mentioned, Judas was one of the twelve who Jesus gave authority to cast out demons and heal the sick. Jesus had appointed him as an apostle.

I ask these questions because they hit at the heart of many of the issues that have divided the church over the ages. Issues such as once saved, always saved and predestination.

You are correct. The people who died before Christ and are going to heaven are those already chosen before the creation of the world to go to heaven. All "holy" people in the OT had received God's Spirit. In the OT, the Holy Spirit wasn't permanently indwelling. God dispensed it at whim. Only after Christ's death did God send the Holy Spirit to all who want it (his elect who are only known by God) to permanently dwell inside them.

And in John 17:2. Jesus talks specifically about Judas: "None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture will be fulfilled." So there is no reason to argue this point unless one wants to argue with Jesus.