Salvation with Security - Parts 1, 2, 3

[Eugene]

SALVATION WITH SECURITY – Part 1, 2, 3
by Eugene
Part 1 of 3

YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN​

To the reader of this material, you must be born again! In (John 3:3), "Jesus answered and said unto him (a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews) Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." Unless you are born again, you may not be able to see, understand, and believe some things written here.

You may ask: how can I know whether I'm born again or not? It is said in (1 John 5:1): "Whosoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:" (Christ: the Anointed one or Messiah - The promised Savior of mankind)

In (John 1:1, 3, 10, 14), Jesus is shown as God, (3) "All things were made by Him;" (10) "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not," and (14) declares that God became man and lived among us. (Matthew 1:23) says: "His name shall be called Immanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

You may have had someone ask you: "Are you saved?" This term is saying that you are saved from condemnation (Romans 8:1), death, hell, and the lake of fire. (Rev 20:11-15) "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: (Showing these being judged were not written therein) and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books (Not the book of life), according to their works.(13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it (Dead bodies in the sea); and death (Dead bodies that were in the grave) and hell (Souls in hell awaiting judgment of those dead bodies in the grave and the sea) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Judgment will come upon all who do not accept Jesus as their savior, and consequently do not have their names written in the book of life. They are the dead who will be judged.

"Verily, verily, I (Jesus) say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him (God, the Father) that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." (John 5:24).

You might think you are good enough and don't need a savior. You haven't killed anyone. You once gave money to United Way to help some cause or the other. You even received a gift Bible for perfect attendance at Sunday school and may even teach Sunday school. I believe I have done more good than bad and God is a God of love and wouldn't punish anyone. (Proverbs 14:12) says "There is a way which seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Surely you realize that the entire world doesn't believe doing bad is the way to please God, or there wouldn't be so much religious activity and sacrifice going on.

On the other hand, you may think you're too bad to be saved; that Almighty God would never accept you. You have done everything wrong and there is no reason trying to get right with God, especially with all those rules and laws.

Both are wrong. Those who believe they are doing alright have become self-righteous, and are in effect saying; we didn't need Jesus to die for us; we can make it by ourselves. The other thinks they are too bad to come to Jesus, and believes that Jesus' dying on the cross was not enough, or they're just plain ignorant of the facts of the matter.

All: The immoral person who believes he is too bad to be saved or just don't care, the moral person believing he is doing more good than bad, and the religious person without Christ that believes he is doing the will of God are all condemned and in the same condition. They all are judged as unfit and will come into judgment, for in (Romans 3:23) "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." This is God's judgment of all mankind. It means that whatever condition you are in when you compare yourself with God, you come up short of His glory, and God states that the wages you will receive for the sin are death (Romans 6:23).

Some may ask: but why did Jesus have to die for my sins for me to be saved? (Romans 3:10-12) "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one" (Romans 3:23). "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

Now when there seems to be no way to get out of the trouble you're in, (Romans 5:8) says: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Love found a way. I believe Brother D.E. Hill put it best when he said: Jesus didn't spill His blood which would suggest that it was accidental, but He came to this world to pour out His blood to pay the penalty for our sins.

Then, just how do you get saved? First of all, it isn't by following the Ten Commandments. In (2 Corinthians 3:7) the law is called "The ministration of death, written and engraven in stones," and (Galatians 3:24-26) tells us that "The law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith, but after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (No longer under the law). For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." If you rightly judge, are truthful and examine yourself by the Ten Commandments, you must come to the conclusion you aren’t totally obeying every aspect of the law at all times. If you found yourself hanging over a deep chasm by a chain of ten links, how many links have to break before you fall to your death? (Romans 7:8) explains how the law worked. "But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (Desire or lust). For without the law sin was dead." and (Romans 4:15b) says "Where no law is, there is no transgression." Without a speed limit, you don't break any speeding laws and haven't got the urge to do anything but to drive the speed at which you want to drive. Having a rule or law to live by is akin to telling a child he is not allowed to play with a certain toy, and I'll guarantee it's the one thing that child will want the most. The law was like a carpenter using a level to determine whether a wall is plumb; it won't square the wall, but will tell you it is out of level. The honest person will finally admit they can't obey all the law and they need help.

"There are none that doeth good, no not one." You need a savior; you need Jesus! (Isaiah 1:18) put it like this "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." In more familiar language, you can get rid of your sins and God will accept you. (2 Timothy 1:9) "God hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,"

Ephesians 2:8, 9. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Now, if salvation is a gift, we can't do anything to earn it, but you read in (Philippians 2:12) that you must work out your own salvation with all fear and trembling. If God has provided this salvation as a free gift, how am I to add anything to that? There are many different ways that the word salvation is used in the Bible, such as safety from enemies, but I will limit this booklet's teaching to four aspects concerning salvation of the soul.

Part 2 continued on reply number 1 >

 

[Eugene]

SALVATION WITH SECURITY – Part 1, 2, 3
by Eugene
Part 2 of 3​

First - It is provisional. If you accept Jesus as your savior, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9-10) "If you say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Second - When you become saved, it is at this time that you are born again and have overcome the penalty of sin, or become saved from the great white throne judgment and the resulting lake of fire. (Repeating John 5:24), "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In (Romans 8:1) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

Third - The working out your own salvation referred to in (Philippians 2:12) is learning to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. This is the experiencing part of our salvation and is another step in our growth as a Christian. (2 Peter 1:5-7) tells us to "Add to your faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity." To realize this growth in our lives, we must learn to begin counting our old man dead. (Romans 6:6) "Knowing this, that our old man (The Adamic nature) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” (Ephesians 4:22) “That ye put off concerning the former conversation (Manner of life) the old man who is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;” (Colossians 3:9) “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds." We all have an old man we should count as dead that still wants to rule our lives. Even though the Apostle Paul knew he was saved, he experienced all kinds of problems with the old man trying to control his life. (Romans 7:14-25) states that (15) he ends up doing that which he hates. In (16,17), Paul realizes that if he agrees that the law is good, then it is no more him that was responsible, but sin that was in him. In looking for an answer he says (24) "Who shall deliver me?" (25) "I thank God through Jesus Christ"

(Romans 8:1). "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." And in (Romans 8:4) it says that "The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (Not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Fourth - We will be saved from this corrupt world. In (Romans 8:18-23), Paul states (18) "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (21) Because the creature (Creation) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." John states in (1 John 3:2) "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER​

Once I'm saved or born of God, can I still go to hell if I mess up? Consider the following.

John 6.44. "No man can come to me (Jesus), except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 10:27-29. "My sheep (Believers in Christ) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (Notice here that we've been given to Jesus by the Father)

John 6:37-40. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (Jesus won't cast us out regardless of our failures) (38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Eph. 4:30. "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

In the above verses, we have been given eternal life (That is God's own life without beginning or end from the moment we're born again), and Jesus says He will not let any one take us out of his hand. The Father will not let anyone take you out of His hand, and the Holy Spirit has sealed us until the day of redemption. How much more secure can we be than God telling us in His word that He is totally for us?

1 John 3:9. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (Practice) sin; for his seed (Jesus) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (Our new Christ nature can't sin.)

Romans 4:7-8. "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

1 John 5:1 (Repeated). "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."

1 John 5:4. "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

1 John 5:5. "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

1 John 5:18. "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus) keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

Revelations 3:5. "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

Philippians 4:3. "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellow labourers, whose names are in the book of life." (This is to show that we are in the book of life in present tense).

Romans 10:13-14. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?"

Part 3 continued on reply number 2 >

 

[Eugene]

SALVATION WITH SECURITY – Part 1, 2, 3
by Eugene
Part 3 of 3​

1 John 5:11-13. "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

John. 6:28. "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Hebrews 13:5. "Let your conversation (Manner of life) be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

Colossians 3:3-4. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."

1 Corinthians 6:19-20. "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”

Isaiah 49:14-16. "But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. (15) Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. (16) Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me." Dear reader, you can believe and trust God because He cannot lie (Titus 1:2). He gave Jesus' life for us and promises He won't fail us. In (Luke 23:42-43) all that the thief next to Jesus on the cross said was; "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. (43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." That thief didn't repent, obey any laws, become baptized, and get filled with the Holy Spirit, or attend church to be with Jesus in paradise! His statement that Jesus was going to His kingdom was acknowledging the fact he believed that Jesus was the Christ; he was saved at that moment. On this booklet's cover, there are only two crosses shown: Jesus' cross where He gave Himself for me, and the believing thief's cross. Like the believing thief, "I am crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Galatians 2:20). By accepting Jesus as my savior, my old man or Adamic nature was crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6-10), died with Him that day and I am free from sin and death. The other thief's suffering on his cross that isn't shown wasn't the end of his trouble, and is in a place you don't want to be. Read (Luke 16:19-31).

If you haven't accepted Jesus as your savior yet, you can be saved this very moment by asking Jesus into your life. Please don't put it off any longer, because you aren’t guaranteed one more moment of life. (John 3:15-18) says "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This doesn't say conditional life as many try to persuade you, but guarantees that you have everlasting life. (17) "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

To repeat (Romans 10:9 & Isaiah 1:18), "That if you shalt say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and shall believe in your heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, you shalt be saved." and "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

It's time for you to make the most important decision of your life! (2 Corinthians 6:2. RSV). God says, "At the acceptable time I have listened to you, and helped you on the day of salvation. Behold, now is the acceptable time; behold, now is the day of salvation." Today is the day for you to become saved! Don't use the excuse of not accepting Christ because of some hypocritical Christian you've seen (Jesus isn't finished with them yet), I don't have the time right now, my church doesn't teach that, God is a God of love and wouldn't put anyone in hell, is there really a God (Nature itself teaches you there is), and what about the big bang theory and evolution? You may allow other similar reasoning to be the argument you present to God for not taking Christ as your savior when he is available, but you'll be the loser because Jesus is the only sacrifice and means of going to heaven given to man. (Acts 4:12) "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Jesus further says in (John 14:6) "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

May God bless and show you your need.

 

[Chopper]

SALVATION WITH SECURITY – Part 1, 2, 3
by Eugene
Part 3 of 3​

1 John 5:11-13. "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

John. 6:28. "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Hebrews 13:5. "Let your conversation (Manner of life) be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

Colossians 3:3-4. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. (4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory."

1 Corinthians 6:19-20. "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”

Isaiah 49:14-16. "But Zion said, The LORD hath forsaken me, and my Lord hath forgotten me. (15) Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. (16) Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me." Dear reader, you can believe and trust God because He cannot lie (Titus 1:2). He gave Jesus' life for us and promises He won't fail us. In (Luke 23:42-43) all that the thief next to Jesus on the cross said was; "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. (43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." That thief didn't repent, obey any laws, become baptized, and get filled with the Holy Spirit, or attend church to be with Jesus in paradise! His statement that Jesus was going to His kingdom was acknowledging the fact he believed that Jesus was the Christ; he was saved at that moment. On this booklet's cover, there are only two crosses shown: Jesus' cross where He gave Himself for me, and the believing thief's cross. Like the believing thief, "I am crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Galatians 2:20). By accepting Jesus as my savior, my old man or Adamic nature was crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6-10), died with Him that day and I am free from sin and death. The other thief's suffering on his cross that isn't shown wasn't the end of his trouble, and is in a place you don't want to be. Read (Luke 16:19-31).

If you haven't accepted Jesus as your savior yet, you can be saved this very moment by asking Jesus into your life. Please don't put it off any longer, because you aren’t guaranteed one more moment of life. (John 3:15-18) says "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." This doesn't say conditional life as many try to persuade you, but guarantees that you have everlasting life. (17) "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

To repeat (Romans 10:9 & Isaiah 1:18), "That if you shalt say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and shall believe in your heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, you shalt be saved." and "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

It's time for you to make the most important decision of your life! (2 Corinthians 6:2. RSV). God says, "At the acceptable time I have listened to you, and helped you on the day of salvation. Behold, now is the acceptable time; behold, now is the day of salvation." Today is the day for you to become saved! Don't use the excuse of not accepting Christ because of some hypocritical Christian you've seen (Jesus isn't finished with them yet), I don't have the time right now, my church doesn't teach that, God is a God of love and wouldn't put anyone in hell, is there really a God (Nature itself teaches you there is), and what about the big bang theory and evolution? You may allow other similar reasoning to be the argument you present to God for not taking Christ as your savior when he is available, but you'll be the loser because Jesus is the only sacrifice and means of going to heaven given to man. (Acts 4:12) "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Jesus further says in (John 14:6) "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

May God bless and show you your need.

Very good presentation of Salvation and eternal security of the believer....I can't believe that anyone would try and argue with that. Good job.

 

[for_his_glory]

You have certainly hit on all the major points of Salvation through Christ. I pray this hits the very heart of those who read it that may not be born again yet, but pondering the why, when and how. God bless you for sharing this with us.

 

[Eugene]

Thank you for you kind remarks brethren in Jesus' name.

 

[Chopper]

Thank you for you kind remarks brethren in Jesus' name.

Man, there's just something about your Sons picture as your avatar. Every time I look at it, my eyes get glued to it for a minute and I get a very warm glowing feeling. Something Spiritual is happening! The only other time I get that feeling is when I look at my 1st wife's picture, who died at 50 and went home to Jesus.

 

[Eugene]

Thank you brother, I'm very blessed to have known his destination in Christ; it would have been horrible to not have that assurance.

 

[Seabass]

SALVATION WITH SECURITY – Part 1, 2, 3
by Eugene
Part 2 of 3​

First - It is provisional. If you accept Jesus as your savior, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9-10) "If you say with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, (10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Those that follow the teaching of eternal security will over look the important aspect of present tense verbs, In Rom 10:10 for example "believeth" is present tense. The believing must conditioanlly ongoing and sustained to be saved for if one quits believing he will be lost.

Second - When you become saved, it is at this time that you are born again and have overcome the penalty of sin, or become saved from the great white throne judgment and the resulting lake of fire. (Repeating John 5:24), "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." In (Romans 8:1) "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus."

Again, having everlasting life is conditional upon one maintain the present tense of the verbs 'heareth' and 'believeth' in Jn 5:24.
One must conditionally remain "in Christ" Rom 8:1. Those that do not remainful to Christ fall from Christ into condemnation.

Third - The working out your own salvation referred to in (Philippians 2:12) is learning to overcome the habit of sin in our lives. This is the experiencing part of our salvation and is another step in our growth as a Christian. (2 Peter 1:5-7) tells us to "Add to your faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity." To realize this growth in our lives, we must learn to begin counting our old man dead. (Romans 6:6) "Knowing this, that our old man (The Adamic nature) is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” (Ephesians 4:22) “That ye put off concerning the former conversation (Manner of life) the old man who is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;” (Colossians 3:9) “Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds." We all have an old man we should count as dead that still wants to rule our lives. Even though the Apostle Paul knew he was saved, he experienced all kinds of problems with the old man trying to control his life. (Romans 7:14-25) states that (15) he ends up doing that which he hates. In (16,17), Paul realizes that if he agrees that the law is good, then it is no more him that was responsible, but sin that was in him. In looking for an answer he says (24) "Who shall deliver me?" (25) "I thank God through Jesus Christ"

(Romans 8:1). "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." And in (Romans 8:4) it says that "The righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us (Not by us), who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

In Phil 2:12, the middle voice, present tense of the verb "work" shows that you are to continue to work out your salvation. Salvation is a process, not something that happens at one moment in time where one the quits that work. The work must be ongoing, sustained for if one quits he will become lost.

Rom 8:4 the verb "walk' is present tense.

Fourth - We will be saved from this corrupt world. In (Romans 8:18-23), Paul states (18) "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. (21) Because the creature (Creation) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. (22) For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." John states in (1 John 3:2) "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

These verses speak to the GROUP Christian/sons of God and not to the individual (plural pronouns "us", and "we" refer to the group). One can become unfaithful and fall from the GROUP. The GROUP remains saved but not the unfaithful individual.

 

[Seabass]

SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER​

Once I'm saved or born of God, can I still go to hell if I mess up? Consider the following.

John 6.44. "No man can come to me (Jesus), except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Jn 6:45 goes with Jn 6:44. Verse 45 explains how God does the drawing "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

God draws by His word when men are "taught" 'heard" and 'learn' then men "cometh to Christ". The verb 'cometh' being middle voice, present tense meaning you must continue to choose to come to Christ for those that quit coming to Christ will be come lost. The drawing is not irresistible apart from the will of man, man must choose and continue to choose to "come to Christ".

John 10:27-29. "My sheep (Believers in Christ) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (Notice here that we've been given to Jesus by the Father)

Eternal security is not given in the context as the reason 'they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand". Eternal security is assumed as the reason.

Jn 6:29 the ones that are given are Christ's sheep of v27, Jn 10:27 shows that one must have a present tense hearing and following of Christ to qualify as one of Christ sheep and be given. If one quits hearing and following he no longer qualifies as one of Christ's sheep.

John 6:37-40. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (Jesus won't cast us out regardless of our failures) (38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

As long as they have a present tense "cometh" to Christ they will not be cast out.

Eph. 4:30. "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

In the above verses, we have been given eternal life (That is God's own life without beginning or end from the moment we're born again), and Jesus says He will not let any one take us out of his hand. The Father will not let anyone take you out of His hand, and the Holy Spirit has sealed us until the day of redemption. How much more secure can we be than God telling us in His word that He is totally for us?

Paul is talking about the GROUP Christian that is sealed. No such thing as an individual sealed apart from the GROUP. As long as one faithfully remains in the group he will remain sealed. Yet if one becomes unfaithful and fall from the sealed group, the group remains sealed but not the individual.

1 John 3:9. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (Practice) sin; for his seed (Jesus) remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (Our new Christ nature can't sin.)

As long as he continues to not practice sins he will remain born of God. John does not say it is "impossible" for the Christian to sin but those that become Christians "cannot" (present tense) continue to live in sin as he did when he was an unsaved sinner.

Romans 4:7-8. "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

God does not unconditionally forgive sins but conditionally forgives the sin of those that repent.
1 Jn 1:7 for those that are Christians, they must conditinally have a present tense walking in the light in order to have a present tense cleansing away of sins by the blood of Christ.

1 John 5:1 (Repeated). "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."

The verb 'believeth"is present tense, one must conditionally continue to believe.

1 John 5:4. "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."

One must conditionally overcometh (present tense)

1 John 5:5. "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

The verbs "overcometh" and "believeth" are present tense.

1 John 5:18. "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God (Jesus) keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

One must continually, conditionally "keepeth" himself.

Revelations 3:5. "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

One must conditionally overcome to be saved.

Philippians 4:3. "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellow labourers, whose names are in the book of life." (This is to show that we are in the book of life in present tense).

As long as one continues to believeth, overcometh his name will remain in the book of life but will be blotted out if he quits believing and does not overcome.

Romans 10:13-14. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?"

As long as one conditionally calls upon the name of the Lord. And how shall they be saved if they do conditionally maintain a present tense belief?

 

[mutzrein]

The question I would ask is, what scriptural support is there for 'accepting Jesus as your saviour'?

 

[Chopper]

The question I would ask is, what scriptural support is there for 'accepting Jesus as your saviour'?

Well my friend, the obvious is John 3 :16, and also....
John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

You probably already know these. Is there something that I can help you with?

 

[Eugene]

The question I would ask is, what scriptural support is there for 'accepting Jesus as your saviour'?

Joh 5:43 I (Jesus) am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not . . .
I’m not quite certain your objection to the word receiving. It is commonly used to denote believing, faith, assurance.
Do you attend a church that does not believe these things, and if so how would you phrase it?

Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Is receiving Jesus’ work on the cross our atonement, and believing on Him different?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

 

[JLB]

Thank you Eugene for taking the time to write out this booklet, to share with those who desperately need Jesus Christ and the salvation that only come through Him.

I hope to discuss with you some things you wrote in it, to possibly clarify some things you stated that I may misunderstand.

That thief didn't repent, obey any laws, become baptized, and get filled with the Holy Spirit,

The act of repenting is turning to God.

The fact that a person needs to turn to God, means they need to turn away from Satan as their lord of the kingdom they are in presently, and confess Jesus as Lord so they will be conveyed into the kingdom of God, and out of the domain of darkness ruled by Satan.

This is repenting in a nutshell.

Confessing Jesus as Lord, is how we receive the forgiveness of sins, by which we are saved.

...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10b

Turning away from all other gods, or religions is the meaning of repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

IOW devoted to One Lord, who is Lord over the kingdom of God.

Teaching people they don't need to repent, because of more of an exception than the rule, in which Jesus was alive in the presence of this man, who did acknowledge Him as Lord [Lord, remember me...] and saw his faith at that moment... is contradictory to the message of the Gospel message Jesus preached. Repent, and believe in the gospel.

Dear reader, you can believe and trust God because He cannot lie

Here is what God said...

14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:14-15


Can we discuss this?



JLB

 

[Eugene]

.
I welcome any constructive discussion always. I've got many things needed to be learned you might be the angel sent to me just for that purpose. thanks.

 

[Brother Mike]

SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER​

Once I'm saved or born of God, can I still go to hell if I mess up? Consider the following.

John 6.44. "No man can come to me (Jesus), except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 10:27-29. "My sheep (Believers in Christ) hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." (Notice here that we've been given to Jesus by the Father)

John 6:37-40. "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (Jesus won't cast us out regardless of our failures) (38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

I considered the following: Election doctrine is Old junk doctrine, It's a dogmatic doctrine trying to understand a real Father that thinks and interacts with His children. The doctrine does not deal with Man and God as a child parent relationship. You get picked if you're a lucky one, and once you've picked, your absolved of all duty to being a child of the most high. You don't go to hell, that is the only goal, missing Hell, and it's wrong.

Deu 21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Deu 21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
Deu 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
Deu 21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Once I'm saved or born of God, can I still go to hell if I mess up? Consider the following.

If I mess up? What is that? This morning the wife dropped a bottle, it hit my coffee cup, then it goes over my laptop. That is a mess up, and it's just a laptop, not worth getting upset about. Twice I ended up in the Branson Jail for not obeying something in my heart to check into. It was not strong but there, I disobeyed the Holy Spirit. My fault, but I did not realise it until I started yelling at God for not warning me, well He did. I screwed up.

Rebellion is not a mess up, and God does not change. Now we go into the dogmatic, you avoid hell no matter what. That should not be a concern of a child of God. A child is a child, you don't disown them. A child, like the younger son can leave though. This is rebellion.

Luk_15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

My son was dead, my son was lost. You don't want to die in this state. However, dead and lost can be restored, still a child. God is not taking prisoners, you don't have to stay in the family. The family is always there though.

God's Method of saving to the utmost those who are in rebellion:

1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep (DEAD).
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Works don't get us saved, but being a child, we don't want to get judged and ruin our quality of life or give up what is in store for us. Not only that, rebellion steps on that edge of being in Hell because God's judgement that ends in Satan destroying our lives is in Hope we repent at least and our spirit saved. It's not the way to go. Without repenting, there is no faithful and just to forgive your sins, and some don't, no matter how bad it gets.

It's not about not sinning, it's about doing what your called to do. Rebellion does not do what God called a person to do.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Making mistakes, messing up, those things happen, we all have messed up, but if we do what we are called to do, then we will never fail, because a heart for the father obey's him no matter how imperfect we are. If you don't, then is a entrance ministered to you anyway?

All the scriptures Eugene!

Does God pick who gets saved?
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What's the condition, they must believe on Him.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Does everyone hear? Does everyone believe?

Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Man has to hear, man has to respond, man has to believe because every man has been given the measure of faith to use to believe with.

God bless.
Mike.

 

[Eugene]

Thanks Brother Mike. There's much of salvation I did not cover including our brethren, and i did say brethren that commit a sin unto death.
Another thing I didn't address is chastening; the natural result of a loving Father and as we read of in Heb 12:11. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

We continue to be God's work; yes, I said His work, and that in progress. You might consider another pamphlet I wrote titled Christen Sufferings.
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/christian-sufferings.52898/

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

I really do not have an idea of your thinking concerning a "Fall" for a child of God, but I would ask what you think of King Saul coming to the point in his life that God would no longer answer him according to 1 Sam 28:6. To me that would be about as bad as it could get; did he go to hell?

 

[Brother Mike]

Thanks Brother Mike. There's much of salvation I did not cover including our brethren, and i did say brethren that commit a sin unto death.
Another thing I didn't address is chastening; the natural result of a loving Father and as we read of in Heb 12:11. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

We continue to be God's work; yes, I said His work, and that in progress. You might consider another pamphlet I wrote titled Christen Sufferings.
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/christian-sufferings.52898/

I really do not have an idea of your thinking concerning a "Fall" for a child of God, but I would ask what you think of King Saul coming to the point in his life that God would no longer answer him according to 1 Sam 28:6. To me that would be about as bad as it could get; did he go to hell?

Did Saul go to hell? The best answer is always, you and I, are not the judge. Do gay Christians go to hell? I hope not, but we are not the judge.

Examine the difference in Hebrews in what you posted, and what I posted about what Paul said. Two different things, One Paul said some are sick now, dead. Just like the guy who slept with His fathers wife, the destruction of His flesh in hopes that hitting bottom makes him repent. We see in 2 cor the guy made it, Paul said receive him that he have not overmuch sorrow, that's a good thing.

Chastise means to instruct, as a teacher. It's not pleasant always, but it's not suffering as in physical illness, sudden loss, poverty things like that, it's a suffering that you don't continue with the things of God until you get it right. I have been there, and promotion only comes with being faithful in what you are given.

The judgement Paul talks about is God Judging, not chastising. There is a difference, we want to avoid God's judgment for rebellion, we want to hear quick and act quick.

1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

God has distributed to every person, has called EVERYONE. I would like to shift the OSAS to Once saved, get in your place with the ability given.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Salvation is not works, walking in what God called and ordained for us is works. Millions of believers are just showing up to church, it's not about that, they don't understand they have ability and a place to take up.

Good talking to you.
Mike

 

[Malachi]

Very good presentation of Salvation and eternal security of the believer....I can't believe that anyone would try and argue with that. Good job.

I would second that.

 

[Eugene]

Salvation is not works, walking in what God called and ordained for us is works. Millions of believers are just showing up to church, it's not about that, they don't understand they have ability and a place to take up.

I agree completely, but then we have a mission and have been betrothed to Christ.
2 Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
2 Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

To me it isn't not doing something to avoid chastisement, it is becoming one making myself ready as we read of in Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. (This is righteous acts; not works of the law to be saved).

Brother Mike, Jesus is going to have a bride taken from His brethren that remains faithful unto death (Rev 2:10), and faithfully keeps His word until He comes for them in the air (Rev 3:10).
Blessings in Christ Jesus.