IS JESUS THE LITERAL SON OF GOD?

[JLB]

The firstborn of all creation.
Pleased post the scriptures that states begotten of the Father before all worlds but not made. True God from true God.

He is the question I am asking of you, because you stated this is what you believe.

Please post the scripture that teaches us Jesus is God’s first work.

That Jesus had a beginning at some point in History.




JLB

 

[Moseme]

The firstborn of all creation.
Pleased post the scriptures that states begotten of the Father before all worlds but not made. True God from true God.

All due respect that just says that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. It does not say that Jesus was created in the beginning nor does it say that God created Jesus. Being the firstborn of all creation could just as well be achieved by a God with no beginning placing himself within creation as when the Word became flesh. You probably wont like that interpretation since it doesn't mesh with your previously stated opinion however it is no more unscriptural than saying that God (even God the son)is a created being. What the bible says is that all of creation was created by him, through him, and for him. Now how could all of creation be created through him and by him if he is also apart of that creation?

 

[Moseme]

The fullness of the one true God merged or was pleased to dwell in Jesus. Gifted not made.
They are ONE.
Another God was not made.

Jesus as the first of Gods work has His own Spirit so HE does have a beginning at some point in history before the world began.

Everything written is true
The Father is the one true God.
The Father is Jesus's God
Jesus is all that the Father is (God)

Any creating by Jesus would have to be by the fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him. And at the will of the Father. Therefore the Father living in Him created through Jesus. Jesus as the Father living in Jesus the Son of Man was doing His work. They are ONE.

About the one on the throne - The Father
“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”

About the Son
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

So we read all that was made according to the Fathers will and at His command "He" made through Jesus.

Now Jesus is a being.
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness

At the appointed time a "body" was prepared for Him.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me

Its clear to me the Son who was,(His Spirit), was in the tent of that body
"Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

And the Father was living in Him doing His work
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

That all sounds interesting, however as JLB stated there are no scriptures that supports the belief the the alpha and omega, beginning and end, the God who delivered Israel out of Egypt, the Word who stood on equal footing with the Father before taking on flesh and becoming a servant then being glorified again with his previous glory, is a created being. If there were any scriptures then you would have posted them by now.

Here are some questions. Jesus is the Word made flesh. The word that created all of creation. How could God speak before he created his word as your theory suggests? And what kind of all powerful God is he if he was unable to speak at one point? And where does the Holy Spirit fit into your theory? Was he also created by the father? Did he create the father? Or was the Holy Spirit always there with the father as we also say that The Word who would become flesh was? Is the Holy Spirit also the one true God and if so how did he become the one true God?

 

[Pipiripi]

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.

He is the Lord God, YHWH, of the Old Testament.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5

• Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.

Jesus is returning with the saints at the end of the age.

He is the LORD God.


Do you believe God the Father is coming with the saints at the resurrection and rapture?


JLB

No, the rapture theory is also a false on. When Jesus returns with the saints is when Jesus are going to destroy Satan and his angels and the people that was death by the second coming of Jesus. So when Jesus returns now, He returns with the Angels in Heaven, not the saints. At the third time after the 1000 year millennium in heaven Jesus returns to earth again.

 

[Pipiripi]

The firstborn of all creation.
Pleased post the scriptures that states begotten of the Father before all worlds but not made. True God from true God.

Micah 5:2, Proverbs 8:22-30. God has spoken!

 

[Pipiripi]

All due respect that just says that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. It does not say that Jesus was created in the beginning nor does it say that God created Jesus. Being the firstborn of all creation could just as well be achieved by a God with no beginning placing himself within creation as when the Word became flesh. You probably wont like that interpretation since it doesn't mesh with your previously stated opinion however it is no more unscriptural than saying that God (even God the son)is a created being. What the bible says is that all of creation was created by him, through him, and for him. Now how could all of creation be created through him and by him if he is also apart of that creation?

Do you think that another God can exist forever besides the one true God?

 

[JLB]

No, the rapture theory is also a false on. When Jesus returns with the saints is when Jesus are going to destroy Satan and his angels and the people that was death by the second coming of Jesus. So when Jesus returns now, He returns with the Angels in Heaven, not the saints. At the third time after the 1000 year millennium in heaven Jesus returns to earth again.

The Resurrection and Rapture happen at the coming of the Lord .


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

 

[Randy]

Micah 5:2, Proverbs 8:22-30. God has spoken!

Proverbs 8:22 shows the first of Gods works
Micah 5:2 can be from ancient times or the distant past
Jesus was before the world began. How long before the world began I don't know.

 

[Randy]

please post the scripture that teaches us Jesus is God’s first work.

That Jesus had a beginning at some point in History.

The firstborn of all things created. (all creation)
You could not accept it.
The church noted it for they stated begotten of the Father before all worlds. They do state not made true God from true God. I agree in part.

 

[Randy]

That all sounds interesting, however as JLB stated there are no scriptures that supports the belief the the alpha and omega, beginning and end, the God who delivered Israel out of Egypt, the Word who stood on equal footing with the Father before taking on flesh and becoming a servant then being glorified again with his previous glory, is a created being. If there were any scriptures then you would have posted them by now.

Here are some questions. Jesus is the Word made flesh. The word that created all of creation. How could God speak before he created his word as your theory suggests? And what kind of all powerful God is he if he was unable to speak at one point? And where does the Holy Spirit fit into your theory? Was he also created by the father? Did he create the father? Or was the Holy Spirit always there with the father as we also say that The Word who would become flesh was? Is the Holy Spirit also the one true God and if so how did he become the one true God?

How could the "Father" speak before He created the "Word"?
Who do you thing created sign Language?

Seriously
Let us create man in OUR image in OUR likeness.
I think the Word was a being- a person
I think the Father is a being - a person

No Jesus didn't create the only true God and His God.
I think you know my source.

No the Father didn't create "His Spirit".

If the Father has a beginning it could not be by any other being.

In regard to the Son of Man it was the Father living in Him doing His work.
Jesus was the word of the Father. The message was not His own.

 

[for_his_glory]

I understand the defending system. Why attacking the Sabbath the Saturday believers and call Ellen G White false prophet, nobody given a warning? I'm not attacking the Christians that are blind. I'm attacking the leaders that has blind them against the ONLY ONE TRUE GOD FROM THE BIBLE. God has sent His prophets to His people, and His people killed the The true prophets of God. And tried to kill also prophets like Elijah and Jeremiah. Why? Because they don't want to come back to God. This is the same like today. You are trying to kill me because I am the only one that believe in the ONE TRUE GOD AND HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT GOD. IT IS THEIR SPIRIT, MEANS THEIR POWER. I think that my work here is about to end. Aslong that I read something against the word of God, I declared BIBLICAL that this is coming from Satan himself.

Mormons do read the Bible, but also put a greater emphasis on two other sources as its primary authorities: the Book of Mormon and The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price as they view them as divinely authoritative. This is why everything we are saying to you sounds like false teachings to you as it contraditcts the belief of the Mormon church that God and Jesus have perfected, glorified physical bodies, while the Holy Ghost is a spirit without a physical body.

 

[for_his_glory]

Can you refer to a post number where someone threatened to kill you? I would like to read it for myself. This is a very serious accusation.



Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?



JLB

That was in post #70 where Pipiripi said you were trying to kill him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus was with God in the beginning. He is all that the Father is. The creation was made through Him and for Him. And since God stated "let us" make man in "our image" Jesus was a being not a word.

Scripture please that says Jesus was a being before the foundation of the world.
What is your definition of a being?

 

[JLB]

The firstborn of all things created. (all creation)

Firstborn sir, not first created.


He created all things.

 

[JLB]

That was in post #70 where Pipiripi said you were trying to kill him.

I asked him to post the number where "I said" I was going to kill him, not where he was claiming whatever nonsense he was claiming.

People will say just about anything on these forums.

JLB

 

[Moseme]

How could the "Father" speak before He created the "Word"?
Who do you thing created sign Language?

Seriously
Let us create man in OUR image in OUR likeness.
I think the Word was a being- a person
I think the Father is a being - a person

No Jesus didn't create the only true God and His God.
I think you know my source.

No the Father didn't create "His Spirit".

If the Father has a beginning it could not be by any other being.

In regard to the Son of Man it was the Father living in Him doing His work.
Jesus was the word of the Father. The message was not His own.

Lol I'm not sure if your serious or just trolling. Sign language? That is no one's preferred method of communication unless they are breaking into someplace. People only use sign language when at least one person is incapable of speech. So again you believe in an almighty God who at one point was incapable of speech.

But my real interest lies in your beliefs regarding the Holy Spirit. Where did he come from and who created him?

 

[Moseme]

Mormons do read the Bible, but also put a greater emphasis on two other sources as its primary authorities: the Book of Mormon and The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price as they view them as divinely authoritative. This is why everything we are saying to you sounds like false teachings to you as it contraditcts the belief of the Mormon church that God and Jesus have perfected, glorified physical bodies, while the Holy Ghost is a spirit without a physical body.

I just did a two year study on Mormonism, visiting with missionaries, attending their church, having dinner with a few ward presidents. They are a cult. The children are indoctrinated as they grow to only seek answers from the church of latter day Saints. To question the beliefs instilled in them by the Mormon church is a violation of their identity. So sadly you will not find many Mormons who are open to considering the vast amount of evidence against their church.

 

[Pipiripi]

Proverbs 8:22 shows the first of Gods works
Micah 5:2 can be from ancient times or the distant past
Jesus was before the world began. How long before the world began I don't know.

Randy, I think that you are completely hypnotized by your teacher. You cannot understand that the Old Testament is preparing for Jesus to come down here. Daniel is a complete preparation.

 

[Pipiripi]

I asked him to post the number where "I said" I was going to kill him, not where he was claiming whatever nonsense he was claiming.

People will say just about anything on these forums.

JLB

When I say if is something to kill me, is because, when there are no answers for my questions I was always be banned. That is the killing. If I write the truth of if you wrote the truth BIBLICAL. I mean that you can find it exactly the same in the Bible, and if it is against the teachings of the owner or the one that have the power to banner you because they know that you are right, but you are troubling them that want people to believe in their teachings. I was ban already about I think a 25 forums or more. But I know that there must be one that can answer all questions BIBLICAL like I do. I know that we are FEW. That is the narrow path.

 

[Moseme]

When I say if is something to kill me, is because, when there are no answers for my questions I was always be banned. That is the killing. If I write the truth of if you wrote the truth BIBLICAL. I mean that you can find it exactly the same in the Bible, and if it is against the teachings of the owner or the one that have the power to banner you because they know that you are right, but you are troubling them that want people to believe in their teachings. I was ban already about I think a 25 forums or more. But I know that there must be one that can answer all questions BIBLICAL like I do. I know that we are FEW. That is the narrow path.

you are Mormon? God is truth and God will defend his truth. You claim that only the church of latter day saints possess the truth. Would you be willing to test your beliefs and see if they line up with reality the way God's truth would? If you like we could discuss it privately or here or if thats against the rules a new thread?