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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
IS JESUS THE LITERAL SON OF GOD?
- Thread starter Pipiripi
- Start date
How can Jesus be the author of eternal salvation if he isnt also eternal?
Pipiripi
Member
Because salvation has to need a beginning. Jesus was before creation. So before sin. I have a beginning, when Jesus comes and I have living His way, then I also will have an eternal.
Sorry I believe I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that Jesus is not eternal.
tigger 2
Member
I believe I saw a post here that used 1 Tim. 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh").
Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he” (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who” (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), “who,” or “which.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.”
All the most-used modern NT texts have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”). Why do so many scholars support this translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?
Noted Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:
“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church, it got into many of the later manuscripts .....” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp. 696-698, vol. 3.)
A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:
“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or ὅ [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.
Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he” (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who” (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), “who,” or “which.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.”
All the most-used modern NT texts have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”). Why do so many scholars support this translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?
Noted Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:
“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, ‘who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church, it got into many of the later manuscripts .....” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp. 696-698, vol. 3.)
A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:
“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or ὅ [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.
Amen. I agree.
Jesus is eternal life.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3
His Spirit is the Spirit of life; Eternal Life
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2
JLB
Pipiripi
Member
My friend we are with existence. And I say that Jesus have a beginning. We are busy about if Jesus was always in existence or have a beginning. The angels in heaven also have an eternal life, but they have a beginning. Let's go back into the future. Jehovah God was always. Jesus came out of Jehovah God. Do you understand now?
I would never say we have God other than 1. It is this God who declared His Son.
I know quantum physics and the fragility of existence. Life is what it is and I walk with what I am given because I trust the Lord who gave His Life for me.
Why does one man stand and the next fall to their death? Holiness, righteousness is brutal, which is why Jesus warns us as a friend. We are called to listen and follow.
Praise the Lord He calls and brings hope. God bless you
Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
He is the Lord God, YHWH, of the Old Testament.
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5
- Thus the LORD my God will come, and all the saints with You.
Jesus is returning with the saints at the end of the age.
He is the LORD God.
Do you believe God the Father is coming with the saints at the resurrection and rapture?
JLB
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To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:5-8
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:13
JLB
The fullness of the one true God merged or was pleased to dwell in Jesus. Gifted not made.
They are ONE.
Another God was not made.
Jesus as the first of Gods work has His own Spirit so HE does have a beginning at some point in history before the world began.
Everything written is true
The Father is the one true God.
The Father is Jesus's God
Jesus is all that the Father is (God)
Any creating by Jesus would have to be by the fullness that was pleased to dwell in Him. And at the will of the Father. Therefore the Father living in Him created through Jesus. Jesus as the Father living in Jesus the Son of Man was doing His work. They are ONE.
About the one on the throne - The Father
“You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”
About the Son
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
So we read all that was made according to the Fathers will and at His command "He" made through Jesus.
Now Jesus is a being.
Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness
At the appointed time a "body" was prepared for Him.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me
Its clear to me the Son who was,(His Spirit), was in the tent of that body
"Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
And the Father was living in Him doing His work
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
please post the scripture that teaches us Jesus is God’s first work.
That Jesus had a beginning at some point in History.
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. Colossians 1:15-17
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10
- For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth
- You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
JLB
Randy, don’t want to keep going round and round with you with the same scriptures.
If you don’t believe Jesus Christ is God, then please tell us what you believe He is:
A: God
B: Man
C: Angel
D: Other
JLB