For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7
These three are one God; one Spirit.
JLB
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
IS JESUS THE LITERAL SON OF GOD?
- Thread starter Pipiripi
- Start date
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
1 John 5:7
These three are one God; one Spirit.
JLB
The name Jesus "inherited" is greater than the angels of God. Hebrews goes into great length "about the Son" who was. Jesus is all that the Father is.
We already established the one on the throne is the Father
Rev 4
Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”
All things from the Father and all things through the Son.
John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Hebrews 1
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe
So in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God but made himself of no reputation and took on the form of a servant.
Ok so how could a created being (Jesus) be equal with its creator? Unless the created being is also the creator as well? Also if the father is God and separate from Jesus who is also God does that make Christianity a polytheistic religion?
Dont get me wrong I believe that the Father and Son are two different people. But I also believe that they are the same entity.
Who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God but made himself of no reputation and took on the form of a servant.
Ok so how could a created being (Jesus) be equal with its creator? Unless the created being is also the creator as well? Also if the father is God and separate from Jesus who is also God does that make Christianity a polytheistic religion?
Dont get me wrong I believe that the Father and Son are two different people. But I also believe that they are the same entity.
Clearly the Father says we are to have no other Gods before Him.
You shall have no other gods before me Exodus 20:3
You shall not bow down to them or worship them Exodus 20:5
This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him! Matt 17:5
Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Matt 28:9
The Son is clearly Gods son, whatever that means in this unusual situation, and the Son is also clearly God, worthy of worship, approved of by the Father. God does not describe this reality as a theory, but rather a status reality, which we need to accept as He is the one who defines what is and is not in all creation.
Interestingly even with this face to face reality and all that has happened, "some doubted" Matt 28:17
The Lord desires that we come to the realisation of reality and it is not forced on us.
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Matt 20:27-28
Here is Jesus, resurrected, encouraging Thomas to see and feel the reality and realise that Jesus is God.
To Jews for a man to be God is blasphemy unless they are God, so this is a crucial issue, a point where the pharisees themselves would execute people. The difference between God the Father, His holiness, His authority, His rules over which disobedience lead to death, and Jesus who did not break a bruised reed.
A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
Matt 12:20
This seeming contradiction was hard to take in, but in Jesus both dwelt side by side. The disciples suggested that when they were rejected, God should bring down judgement on those who rejected Him.
"Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?"
But Jesus turned and rebuked them,
Luke 9:54-55
God bless you
Pipiripi
Member
Yes I believe, but how?
This way I believe.
I am human, so my child is also human.
Jehovah is God, so His Son Jesus is also God.
Conclusion: God THE Father and His only BEGOTTEN SON.
Jesus is NOT created. But everything else is created.
Let we used numbers as an example.
God is eternal. No numbers then Jesus is the first number, number 1 first beginning, come out of THE FATHER GOD. Then late in time are angels let we put 1000 years after Jesus. They are created. Then another 1000 years all others things was created including humans. Our first day beginning by Genesis 1.
Do you understand why Jesus is God for me. But the Trinity doctrine teaches that they are 3 Gods there was always. If you have understand the way I see it, then you can see that the Holy Spirit is not a being. So it is not a God. It is God power God own divine life. His brain/breath. And they share the same brain/breath (Holy Spirit). I hope that you have understand this amazing truth. If the apostles has opened their statement and closed it with 2 beings, because that is the teachings of Jesus. There is nowhere in the Bible written God Holy Spirit, or Holy Spirit God. All that we find is: the Holy Spirit OF God, or God HIS Holy Spirit. Something that belongs to God.
What means begotten for you my friend. And if Jesus was always a God why call Him Son of God? Read John 17. I will seek more for you.
Because the fullness was gifted to Him at His beginning at some point in history before the world began.
"the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him" - from the will of another and a point in history
I was quoting 1 John 5:7.
For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
1 John 5:7-8 NKJV
JLB
Hebrews 1 is dealing with the subject of the Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, which was a difficult subject for the Hebrew mind to address.
The Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament is the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ. He appeared in different forms to several people and the Angel of the Lord was one of them.
Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’
Exodus 3:1-6,14
- And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush.
- And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
- And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’
JLB
Yes kind begets after His own kind.
Man begets man.
God begets God.
As a side note, I don’t use the name Jehovah, it is not the correct name for God.
That’s another discussion.
JLB
Here is an interesting verse from John 17.
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. John 17:11 NIV
- Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me
JLB
Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. Matthew 1:2
Beget in the natural sense refers to bringing forth that which is living in the father to be manifested within the womb of the mother in which the child has attributes of both.
The father begets.
The mother gives birth.
We are begotten of our father and born of our mother.
Jesus is the Seed. The exact representation of God.
JLB
I already have.
Fathers promise=>In the last days I will pour out my Spirit
Jesus=>And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever--
Jesus=>Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
My point is I see oneness as I stated.
Jesus=>Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
Jesus=>Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
So are you informing me that Jesus is mistaken?
Where is the person of Spirit in this creed?Or perhaps its the Fathers Spirit not a person
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Where is the person of Spirit in this honoring? Who is the one on the throne? Would that be the one true God as the head of the body of Christ stated?
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Worship who in Spirit and truth? Would that be the one true God as stated by Jesus?
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.
Jesus didn't purchase us for Himself He purchased us for GOD by His blood.
Jesus is not His own Christ. In the days of the sounding of the 7th trump the kingdoms of the whole world will become the kingdom of GOD and HIS Christ.
Jesus is not a High Priest forever to Himself. He is a priest to HIS GOD.
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
And again I ask: Jesus calls the Father the one true God. If He always was and always was God how then do you believe in ONE God for Jesus stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit MY SPIRIT?"
He is Gods firstborn. He received authority. He inherited all things. Yet you tell me He is "I AM"
The one true God has all authority and owns all things. He doesn't receive from any other being.
The creation was created through Jesus and for Jesus. Who was it stated all things are from? The Father, the one Jesus calls His God.
"The fullness" was "pleased" to dwell in Him. - from the will of another at a point in history.
who is the Him who received that gifting? The firstborn of all creation.
You are free to believe begotten of the Father before all worlds but not made. I agree in part only.
Why did you overlook, "the name you gave me"?
What I see is the Father has glorified Jesus above all others. The one Jesus calls His God and the only true God. I do likewise. You have my source.
Jesus is the Lord Christ. My Lord and savior. I know from above He is all that the Father is.
Sorry Randy, but please quote the actual scripture with context for each point you are wanting to make. You seem to have all you know about this subject, all mixed together with no real scripture or context.
You have some great ideas and insight, but there are things about this subject that we must rightly divide, in order to understand what Jesus taught us, and what the Holy Spirit is wanting us to understand.
Here is just one point that needs to be understood.
Here is a scripture that some groups use to teach that Jesus is only a man and not the Lord God.
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying—a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
1 Timothy 2:3-7
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.
So based on this verse, Jesus is just a Man?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1-3,14
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us
Who became flesh? Who became a little lower than the angels.
- The Father
- The Son
- The Spirit
JLB
Randy, Im the one who quoted the scripture for all to examine, plainly and in the open for everyone to examine.
The Father is the one who gives His name to the Son.
The Father is greater than the Son.
You have heard Me say to you, ‘I am going away and coming back to you.’ If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.
John 14:28
Jesus came forth from God the Father, and is God; the only begotten of the Father.
The Son created all things, according to the will of the Father.
If you believe God the Father Beget something other than God, then please explain what you believe God the Father Beget, with scripture.
Man begets man.
Animal begets animal.
God begets God.
JLB
No. Those are your words.
Jesus is the Beginning.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:13
He has no beginning or end.