Should women teach in the church?

[jaybo]

There is a tendency to think that everything that Paul wrote is God "speaking through him". Even though it is in the New Testament, Paul makes it clear that sometimes he is writing his own opinion.

This is abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians 7:10-13, " To the married I give this command—not I, but the Lord—a wife should not divorce a husband (but if she does, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband), and a husband should not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say—I, not the Lord—if a brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is happy to live with him, he should not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is happy to live with her, she should not divorce him."

If Paul wrote directions to Timothy, why do some people make a new law out of what he wrote?

Now about women teaching in church, here is what Paul wrote in context...

1 Timothy 2:9-12, "Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing, but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet."

If someone wants to make this into a law of God that must be followed, then it must all be taken into account.

According to this section, women cannot wear braids, wear any gold jewelry (including a wedding ring?) or pearls, or expensive clothing, and they must remain quiet.

If you're going to make Paul's writings into a new version of the law, then you must include all of it. No gold jewelry! No expensive clothes! No braids!

In other words, to interpret this correctly, it applies to the 1st Century CE only. The status and role of women was entirely different than in modern Western societies. Can anyone say that if, for example, a woman feels the call of God on her life and receives a doctorate in biblical studies, she is not allowed to teach or exercise authority over a man? That includes not only in church but in a university as well.

It's high time to realize that it is the Spirit of God that controls the affairs of the church, using whomever God chooses to carry the message of His kingdom and righteousness. It is not dependent on the law, otherwise we might as well all become Pharisees!

 

[Free]

So you're repeatedly wrong. In both areas.

No, I was just mistaken that once. If you care to address the previous four points I gave, or any of the other points, please feel free to do so. I find it's beneficial to discussions when the actual points being made are addressed, rather than ignored.

 

[Terraphim]

Do you know what didn't happen? Jesus didn't say to His mother, "Who are you to tell me what to do? You're just a woman; I am a man. I am in charge, not you." He questioned her, then realized her authority and did exactly what she told Him to do.

If Jesus obeyed a woman, what's your problem?

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
Joh 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.

So, it's rather the contrary, Jesus obeyed His Father, not Mary. Jesus responded to His mother with a clear statement of subjection; "Woman". In general, your basic premise is wrong. You should be seeking to affirm, along with Jesus;
Mat 26:39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will."

It's OK to be wrong, I've been wrong many times. The Lord's will is what's best for you. Embrace Him, and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in this matter.

God did not create man and woman as equals, but rather the Adam was male and female, then God physically separated them, then He spiritually separated them. They were still together when the Lord gave the command to avoid the fruit. That's how she knew the command when she repeated it to the serpent. She ate of the fruit knowingly. Adam ate of the fruit from her hand, not from the tree. When she "gave to her husband with her", she was not necessarily still standing by the tree, such that Adam would have known where it came from. The "with her" phrase is like "the woman you gave .. with me" phrase further on, which indicates that it refers to their relationship, physical and spiritual, not to Adam's physical proximity to her and the tree.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
If Adam was standing by the tree, then he would have also been deceived.

Further, when Adam was questioned by the Lord, he didn't blame the woman, he just stated facts.

The woman was deceived, and sinned. Adam ate of the fruit unknowingly. However, because he was the man, the head of the woman, he had to bear the blame.

Yes, women may be capable teachers, but they are not allowed to speak by teaching, preaching, or prophesizing as part of a church service, and that includes adult Sunday school. Neither may they hold a position of authority over a man in the church.

The true church operates according to a rule. That is not the same as legalism. The rule in this regard is because of the order of things in the juxtaposed spirit realm of the kingdom of heaven. It is because of the nature of the concurrently resurrected Life in the new Adam, the spirit body. The Adam was spiritually male and female. The new Adam of the spirit body is also male and female.

Seek to be approved of God.

Be well, be blessed.

 

[jerry63935]

d that includes adult Sunday school.

but yet they can teach but not adults see i totally disagree with that. if you hold to that then women should not teach period . Men step up take care of all the sunday school classes .including nursery

 

[Hopeful]

But Galatians 3:28 says this: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Try to have a baby, and tell me that again.
Some things in scripture deal with the skin and bones of the created and other things deal with the spiritual aspects of the created.
Gal 3:28 deals with the spiritual.

If you want to base your doctrine on a single verse from the Old Testament, there is nothing further to discuss.

It is what Paul based his doctrine on.
I am comfortable doing the same.

BTW, it's "help meet", not "help mate" in the (archaic) KJV. Meet means suitable.

Gen 2:18..."And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him."
Or..."And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help, suitable for him.
Both say the woman was made for the man.

 

[Hopeful]

My wife and I have had 53 years of wonderful marriage together. We are equal partners in everything, as God intended. It is unChristian to consider the woman as inferior to the man in a marriage.

When God created humans...

"Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This one at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and unites with his wife, and they become one family." Genesis 2:22-24

That is as clear as it can possibly be. Adam didn't say "Finally I have a glorified servant, inferior to me, who will do whatever I command". He spoke from the heart, in love, about his companion in life.

All the arguments about women being subservient to men, including not teaching in church, are absurd justifications to put women "in their place". In God's kingdom, men and women are equals.

I will follow Paul's lead, based on scripture, instead of man's interpretation of same.

 

[n2thelight]

But this has nothing to do with the issue being talked about. It does nothing to address whether women can teach men in the assembled church or if they can exercise authority over men within the assembled church.

Has everything to do with it , how can daughters prophecy if they are not teaching ?

 

[Cooper]

I will follow Paul's lead, based on scripture, instead of man's interpretation of same.

Would that include taking responsibility for the care and welfare of your family?
.

 

[n2thelight]

If you want to be led by a woman...start your own religion.
Other have done it before.

In many traditions of the Church, there has been confusion and controversy about the roles of women in ministry. While people still debate what Paul meant in a few passages, there is strong evidence throughout Scripture that God intended women to take a leadership role. Here are 10 examples of women leaders in the Bible:

1. Judge​

Judges 4 and 5 tell of the great leader Deborah. She was not only a judge, but also a prophet. Some try to argue that God called Deborah only because Barak refused to go to battle without her (Judges 4:8-9). But that ignores the fact Deborah held court before this male military leader came on the scene (Judges 4:5).

2. Exodus Leader​

When the children of Israel miraculously crossed the Red Sea, Miriam was one of the first to pick up an instrument and lead in worship (Exodus 15:20). But this wasn’t her only ministry role. Micah 6:4 names Miriam as a leader of the nation, along with Moses and Aaron.

3. Reformer​

In 2 Kings 22, King Josiah finds the long-lost Book of the Law. Knowing the kingdom was in need of revival, he gathered some of the most trusted prophets. Although there were more prominent prophets on the scene at the time, like Jeremiah and Zephaniah, it’s interesting that Huldah the prophetess had a leading role in the restoration.

4. Queen​

A whole book of the Bible tells the story of this fearless leader. Esther risked her own life to save the lives of the Jewish people. And each year at Purim, Jews everywhere still reflect on Esther’s story.

Mary Magdalene was the first person Jesus sent with the message of hope.​

5. Disciple​

While the twelve male disciples of Jesus are more familiar to most, Mary of Bethany was one of many women who followed Jesus (Luke 8:1-3). Sitting at the feet of a teacher, or rabbi, was a privilege normally reserved only for men. Yet in Luke 10:39 we find Mary, the sister of Martha and Lazarus, assuming the posture of a student of the Lord.

6. Witness​

Although often confused with Mary of Bethany, Mary Magdalene was the first to see the risen Lord (John 20:14). It was Mary who received the task of proclaiming Jesus’ resurrection to the other disciples, specifically the men. She was the first person Jesus sent with the message of hope. Some say this makes Mary the first apostle, or “sent one.”

7. Businesswoman​

Upon arriving in Philippi, Paul first went to the Jews. He found no synagogue, but he did find women praying at the river. Lydia, a merchant, responded to the message of Christ and offered hospitality to Paul and Silas (Acts 16:14-15). The believers later gathered at the home of this businesswoman and Early Church leader (Acts 16:40).

8. Deacon​

Little is known about Phoebe except that she held the title of “deacon” (Romans 16:1). But many scholars believe Phoebe’s role was to take Paul’s letter to the church in Rome where she would have read it to the believers and even answered questions they may have had. What an amazing responsibility!

9. Teacher​

Priscilla, along with her husband Aquila, was a business owner in Corinth who gave Paul lodging and perhaps a job. She was also a great teacher (Acts 18:26). It’s of note that Luke lists Priscilla first, which may indicate she was the lead teacher of the two.

10. Prophets​

This last one is actually more than one. And in fact, their story continues. Joel 2 foretold a time when God would pour out his Spirit on all flesh: “Your sons and daughters will prophesy” (verse 28). On the Day of Pentecost, Peter confirmed that time had come. And it is still true today! Any daughter of God has the full rights and privilege to declare His Word, testify to His salvation, and prophesy by His Spirit.

 

[electedbyhim]

In many traditions of the Church, there has been confusion and controversy about the roles of women in ministry. While people still debate what Paul meant in a few passages, there is strong evidence throughout Scripture that God intended women to take a leadership role. Here are 10 examples of women leaders in the Bible:

1. Judge​

Judges 4 and 5 tell of the great leader Deborah. She was not only a judge, but also a prophet. Some try to argue that God called Deborah only because Barak refused to go to battle without her (Judges 4:8-9). But that ignores the fact Deborah held court before this male military leader came on the scene (Judges 4:5).

2. Exodus Leader​

When the children of Israel miraculously crossed the Red Sea, Miriam was one of the first to pick up an instrument and lead in worship (Exodus 15:20). But this wasn’t her only ministry role. Micah 6:4 names Miriam as a leader of the nation, along with Moses and Aaron.

3. Reformer​

In 2 Kings 22, King Josiah finds the long-lost Book of the Law. Knowing the kingdom was in need of revival, he gathered some of the most trusted prophets. Although there were more prominent prophets on the scene at the time, like Jeremiah and Zephaniah, it’s interesting that Huldah the prophetess had a leading role in the restoration.

4. Queen​

A whole book of the Bible tells the story of this fearless leader. Esther risked her own life to save the lives of the Jewish people. And each year at Purim, Jews everywhere still reflect on Esther’s story.

Mary Magdalene was the first person Jesus sent with the message of hope.​

5. Disciple​

While the twelve male disciples of Jesus are more familiar to most, Mary of Bethany was one of many women who followed Jesus (Luke 8:1-3). Sitting at the feet of a teacher, or rabbi, was a privilege normally reserved only for men. Yet in Luke 10:39 we find Mary, the sister of Martha and Lazarus, assuming the posture of a student of the Lord.

6. Witness​

Although often confused with Mary of Bethany, Mary Magdalene was the first to see the risen Lord (John 20:14). It was Mary who received the task of proclaiming Jesus’ resurrection to the other disciples, specifically the men. She was the first person Jesus sent with the message of hope. Some say this makes Mary the first apostle, or “sent one.”

7. Businesswoman​

Upon arriving in Philippi, Paul first went to the Jews. He found no synagogue, but he did find women praying at the river. Lydia, a merchant, responded to the message of Christ and offered hospitality to Paul and Silas (Acts 16:14-15). The believers later gathered at the home of this businesswoman and Early Church leader (Acts 16:40).

8. Deacon​

Little is known about Phoebe except that she held the title of “deacon” (Romans 16:1). But many scholars believe Phoebe’s role was to take Paul’s letter to the church in Rome where she would have read it to the believers and even answered questions they may have had. What an amazing responsibility!

9. Teacher​

Priscilla, along with her husband Aquila, was a business owner in Corinth who gave Paul lodging and perhaps a job. She was also a great teacher (Acts 18:26). It’s of note that Luke lists Priscilla first, which may indicate she was the lead teacher of the two.

10. Prophets​

This last one is actually more than one. And in fact, their story continues. Joel 2 foretold a time when God would pour out his Spirit on all flesh: “Your sons and daughters will prophesy” (verse 28). On the Day of Pentecost, Peter confirmed that time had come. And it is still true today! Any daughter of God has the full rights and privilege to declare His Word, testify to His salvation, and prophesy by His Spirit.

None of those were teachers/Pastors in the church, I have heard this argument many times trying to justify a woman's role as a leader in the church. I could break down each point that you have posted, however it would make no difference to anyone who believes woman can be a leader in the church and time does not permit it for me.

One can probably just look on the net for the counter argument that you have posted.

 

[jerry63935]

this entire post has got out of control. the women not being preachers is there.. BUT NOT being adult s.s teachers is not there. i know several good women adult s.s teachers. not one time did they put authority over man. just taught scripture. if it wasnt for the women the Church would exist as a body unit.. Men dont want to go . i deal with it every sunday

 

[JLB]

There is a tendency to think that everything that Paul wrote is God "speaking through him". Even though it is in the New Testament, Paul makes it clear that sometimes he is writing his own opinion.

This is abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians 7:10-13, " To the married I give this command—not I, but the Lord—a wife should not divorce a husband (but if she does, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband), and a husband should not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say—I, not the Lord—if a brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is happy to live with him, he should not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is happy to live with her, she should not divorce him."

If Paul wrote directions to Timothy, why do some people make a new law out of what he wrote?

Now about women teaching in church, here is what Paul wrote in context...

1 Timothy 2:9-12, "Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing, but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet."

If someone wants to make this into a law of God that must be followed, then it must all be taken into account.

According to this section, women cannot wear braids, wear any gold jewelry (including a wedding ring?) or pearls, or expensive clothing, and they must remain quiet.

If you're going to make Paul's writings into a new version of the law, then you must include all of it. No gold jewelry! No expensive clothes! No braids!

In other words, to interpret this correctly, it applies to the 1st Century CE only. The status and role of women was entirely different than in modern Western societies. Can anyone say that if, for example, a woman feels the call of God on her life and receives a doctorate in biblical studies, she is not allowed to teach or exercise authority over a man? That includes not only in church but in a university as well.

It's high time to realize that it is the Spirit of God that controls the affairs of the church, using whomever God chooses to carry the message of His kingdom and righteousness. It is not dependent on the law, otherwise we might as well all become Pharisees!

Well written post.

Paul had the job of turning Gentiles, heathens, into godly men and women of Christ. Unlike Jewish brothers and sisters who had a heritage of the law and covenants, as well as the prophets, to learn from, and knew what the Lord expected of them, the Gentiles only knew the serving of other gods, and licentious behavior.


Paul, bringing the Gospel to them, and living among them knew what was needed and acted in their best interest according to the wisdom God had given him.




JLB

 

[electedbyhim]

There is a tendency to think that everything that Paul wrote is God "speaking through him". Even though it is in the New Testament, Paul makes it clear that sometimes he is writing his own opinion.

This is abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians 7:10-13, " To the married I give this command—not I, but the Lord—a wife should not divorce a husband (but if she does, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband), and a husband should not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say—I, not the Lord—if a brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is happy to live with him, he should not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is happy to live with her, she should not divorce him."

If Paul wrote directions to Timothy, why do some people make a new law out of what he wrote?

Now about women teaching in church, here is what Paul wrote in context...

1 Timothy 2:9-12, "Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing, but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet."

If someone wants to make this into a law of God that must be followed, then it must all be taken into account.

According to this section, women cannot wear braids, wear any gold jewelry (including a wedding ring?) or pearls, or expensive clothing, and they must remain quiet.

If you're going to make Paul's writings into a new version of the law, then you must include all of it. No gold jewelry! No expensive clothes! No braids!

In other words, to interpret this correctly, it applies to the 1st Century CE only. The status and role of women was entirely different than in modern Western societies. Can anyone say that if, for example, a woman feels the call of God on her life and receives a doctorate in biblical studies, she is not allowed to teach or exercise authority over a man? That includes not only in church but in a university as well.

It's high time to realize that it is the Spirit of God that controls the affairs of the church, using whomever God chooses to carry the message of His kingdom and righteousness. It is not dependent on the law, otherwise we might as well all become Pharisees!

The bulk of conservative evangelical Christianity believes in what is called the verbal plenary inspiration of Scripture, meaning that every single word of the Bible is “breathed out” by God (2 Timothy 3:16). If biblical critics can claim that 1 Corinthians 7:12 is not inspired, but rather Paul’s opinion, what other passages could they claim to be the opinion of the human author and not the commands of the divine Author? This strikes at the very heart of biblical authority.

Paul wrote this first letter to a group of Christians dwelling in the city of Corinth, a very corrupt city. Part of that corruption was due to the temple of Aphrodite, which was home to over 1,000 temple prostitutes who plied their trade on behalf of their deity. It was in this setting that Paul founded the church at Corinth. In fact, many of the congregation came out of the immoral Corinthian lifestyle. The church of Corinth was made up of ex-fornicators, ex-idolaters, ex-adulterers, ex-homosexuals, ex-thieves, and ex-drunkards.

With that as a backdrop, when Paul gets into chapter 7 of his letter, he is answering a question the church had regarding sexual relations between men and women. Given the social climate in Corinth, the Corinthians thought it would be a good thing for everyone to remain celibate. Paul agrees that celibacy is a good thing and even states that he wishes more people could be celibate as he was. Paul is not down on marriage. All he is doing is stating the obvious benefits that singleness affords for ministry opportunities. However, Paul mentions that singleness is a gift from God, and not all have the gift (v. 7). For those who are currently married, Paul tells them to remain so, and in v. 10 Paul says “not I, but the Lord.” This means that what Paul is telling the Corinthians is a direct command from Jesus. This command comes from Jesus’ teaching in the gospels, in particular, Matthew 5:32.

Finally, in v. 12, Paul addresses “mixed marriages”—those between a Christian and a non-Christian. Given the prevailing environment, Christians might be tempted to divorce their unbelieving spouses, thinking that somehow by doing so they are purifying themselves. Paul tells the believing spouse to remain with the unbeliever, with the comment that the command comes from him, not Jesus. But Paul is not offering his own opinion here. What he is saying is that Jesus never addressed this issue directly during His earthly ministry. If we search the Gospels, we will not see any direct teaching of Jesus that addresses the situation of a believing spouse married to an unbelieving spouse. But Jesus did give only one legitimate reason for divorce (Matthew 5:32; 19:19), and being married to an unbeliever was not it.

So the best answer is to see Paul as providing new revelation regarding an area that Jesus did not specifically address. That is why Paul says, “I, not the Lord.” In other words, I, not Jesus, am giving you this command, although it is based on the principles Jesus taught. As extensive as Jesus’ ministry was, He did not articulate everything regarding the Christian life. That is why He commissioned the apostles to carry on His ministry after His ascension, and that is why we have a God-breathed Bible, “so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:17). Paul was responsible for much new revelation, although ultimately those revelations came from the Holy Spirit. In many of his epistles, Paul reveals to us “mystery.” The word “mystery” is a technical term that signifies some previously unrevealed truth that is now revealed, such as the church being made up of both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 11:25) or the rapture (1 Corinthians 15:51-52). Paul is simply giving us additional revelation regarding marriage that Jesus didn’t elaborate on.

 

[jaybo]

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
Joh 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.

So, it's rather the contrary, Jesus obeyed His Father, not Mary. Jesus responded to His mother with a clear statement of subjection; "Woman". In general, your basic premise is wrong. You should be seeking to affirm, along with Jesus;
Mat 26:39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will."

It's OK to be wrong, I've been wrong many times. The Lord's will is what's best for you. Embrace Him, and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in this matter.

God did not create man and woman as equals, but rather the Adam was male and female, then God physically separated them, then He spiritually separated them. They were still together when the Lord gave the command to avoid the fruit. That's how she knew the command when she repeated it to the serpent. She ate of the fruit knowingly. Adam ate of the fruit from her hand, not from the tree. When she "gave to her husband with her", she was not necessarily still standing by the tree, such that Adam would have known where it came from. The "with her" phrase is like "the woman you gave .. with me" phrase further on, which indicates that it refers to their relationship, physical and spiritual, not to Adam's physical proximity to her and the tree.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
If Adam was standing by the tree, then he would have also been deceived.

Further, when Adam was questioned by the Lord, he didn't blame the woman, he just stated facts.

The woman was deceived, and sinned. Adam ate of the fruit unknowingly. However, because he was the man, the head of the woman, he had to bear the blame.

Yes, women may be capable teachers, but they are not allowed to speak by teaching, preaching, or prophesizing as part of a church service, and that includes adult Sunday school. Neither may they hold a position of authority over a man in the church.

The true church operates according to a rule. That is not the same as legalism. The rule in this regard is because of the order of things in the juxtaposed spirit realm of the kingdom of heaven. It is because of the nature of the concurrently resurrected Life in the new Adam, the spirit body. The Adam was spiritually male and female. The new Adam of the spirit body is also male and female.

Seek to be approved of God.

Be well, be blessed.

It's OK to be wrong, You've been wrong many times. This time included. I am under grace, not under the law. Why not give it a try?

 

[Free]

Has everything to do with it , how can daughters prophecy if they are not teaching ?

Prophecy is not teaching, at least not in the same sense, which is why they are differentiated.

 

[Free]

There is a tendency to think that everything that Paul wrote is God "speaking through him". Even though it is in the New Testament, Paul makes it clear that sometimes he is writing his own opinion.

This is abundantly clear in 1 Corinthians 7:10-13, " To the married I give this command—not I, but the Lord—a wife should not divorce a husband (but if she does, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband), and a husband should not divorce his wife.

To the rest I say—I, not the Lord—if a brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is happy to live with him, he should not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is happy to live with her, she should not divorce him."

Even when he was speaking, it was still God working through him. Otherwise, 2 Tim 3:16 isn't true. And, as I've already mentioned, in 1 Tim 2:7 Paul clearly establishes his authority as an apostle before making his arguments.

If Paul wrote directions to Timothy, why do some people make a new law out of what he wrote?

Again, you're confusing law with commands for believers. You would do well to learn the difference. As I pointed out previously, we could dismiss the vast majority of the NT with this argument. And, as per usual, you ignored it. It's hard not to notice that you ignore or simply dismiss, usually by deflecting, all the hardest arguments showing your position to have seriously difficulties and then just return to the very arguments proven false or inadequate.

Now about women teaching in church, here is what Paul wrote in context...

1 Timothy 2:9-12, "Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing, but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet."

If someone wants to make this into a law of God that must be followed, then it must all be taken into account.

According to this section, women cannot wear braids, wear any gold jewelry (including a wedding ring?) or pearls, or expensive clothing, and they must remain quiet.

If you're going to make Paul's writings into a new version of the law, then you must include all of it. No gold jewelry! No expensive clothes! No braids!

Women are to be modest in their dress. I've seen women, and some men, who should be following this advice.

In other words, to interpret this correctly, it applies to the 1st Century CE only.

You have not at all shown this to be the case.

The status and role of women was entirely different than in modern Western societies.

Yes but that is not the issue and has no bearing on the topic.

Can anyone say that if, for example, a woman feels the call of God on her life and receives a doctorate in biblical studies, she is not allowed to teach or exercise authority over a man? That includes not only in church but in a university as well.

But you're ignoring that in not permitting women to teach in church or exercise authority over men in church, Paul made his appeal first to the created order--Adam was created first--and then to who was deceived--Eve. You have yet to address this, despite my having mentioned it several times.

It's high time to realize that it is the Spirit of God that controls the affairs of the church, using whomever God chooses to carry the message of His kingdom and righteousness. It is not dependent on the law, otherwise we might as well all become Pharisees!

Again, the argument to law is false. Of course the Spirit of God controls the affairs of the Church, but will do so in accordance with Scripture. Do you forget that the Spirit of God had a hand in the writing of the NT, giving commands in how Christians are to live and behave, both in church and out of it?

 

[jaybo]

Even when he was speaking, it was still God working through him. Otherwise, 2 Tim 3:16 isn't true. And, as I've already mentioned, in 1 Tim 2:7 Paul clearly establishes his authority as an apostle before making his arguments.


Again, you're confusing law with commands for believers. You would do well to learn the difference. As I pointed out previously, we could dismiss the vast majority of the NT with this argument. And, as per usual, you ignored it. It's hard not to notice that you ignore or simply dismiss, usually by deflecting, all the hardest arguments showing your position to have seriously difficulties and then just return to the very arguments proven false or inadequate.


Women are to be modest in their dress. I've seen women, and some men, who should be following this advice.


You have not at all shown this to be the case.


Yes but that is not the issue and has no bearing on the topic.


But you're ignoring that in not permitting women to teach in church or exercise authority over men in church, Paul made his appeal first to the created order--Adam was created first--and then to who was deceived--Eve. You have yet to address this, despite my having mentioned it several times.


Again, the argument to law is false. Of course the Spirit of God controls the affairs of the Church, but will do so in accordance with Scripture. Do you forget that the Spirit of God had a hand in the writing of the NT, giving commands in how Christians are to live and behave, both in church and out of it?

It's hard not to notice that you ignore or simply dismiss, usually by deflecting, all the hardest arguments showing your position to have seriously difficulties and then just return to the very arguments proven false or inadequate.

I'm done discussing this with you. You are clinging to the supposed doctrine of male superiority, which is not Scriptural. God made men and women to be equal in every area and complementary to each other. End of discussion!

 

[Hopeful]

Would that include taking responsibility for the care and welfare of your family?
.

Of course.
My earnings would subsidize the whole shebang.

 

[Hopeful]

In many traditions of the Church, there has been confusion and controversy about the roles of women in ministry. While people still debate what Paul meant in a few passages, there is strong evidence throughout Scripture that God intended women to take a leadership role. Here are 10 examples of women leaders in the Bible:

1. Judge​

Judges 4 and 5 tell of the great leader Deborah. She was not only a judge, but also a prophet. Some try to argue that God called Deborah only because Barak refused to go to battle without her (Judges 4:8-9). But that ignores the fact Deborah held court before this male military leader came on the scene (Judges 4:5).

2. Exodus Leader​

When the children of Israel miraculously crossed the Red Sea, Miriam was one of the first to pick up an instrument and lead in worship (Exodus 15:20). But this wasn’t her only ministry role. Micah 6:4 names Miriam as a leader of the nation, along with Moses and Aaron.

3. Reformer​

In 2 Kings 22, King Josiah finds the long-lost Book of the Law. Knowing the kingdom was in need of revival, he gathered some of the most trusted prophets. Although there were more prominent prophets on the scene at the time, like Jeremiah and Zephaniah, it’s interesting that Huldah the prophetess had a leading role in the restoration.

4. Queen​

A whole book of the Bible tells the story of this fearless leader. Esther risked her own life to save the lives of the Jewish people. And each year at Purim, Jews everywhere still reflect on Esther’s story.

Mary Magdalene was the first person Jesus sent with the message of hope.​

5. Disciple​

While the twelve male disciples of Jesus are more familiar to most, Mary of Bethany was one of many women who followed Jesus (Luke 8:1-3). Sitting at the feet of a teacher, or rabbi, was a privilege normally reserved only for men. Yet in Luke 10:39 we find Mary, the sister of Martha and Lazarus, assuming the posture of a student of the Lord.

6. Witness​

Although often confused with Mary of Bethany, Mary Magdalene was the first to see the risen Lord (John 20:14). It was Mary who received the task of proclaiming Jesus’ resurrection to the other disciples, specifically the men. She was the first person Jesus sent with the message of hope. Some say this makes Mary the first apostle, or “sent one.”

7. Businesswoman​

Upon arriving in Philippi, Paul first went to the Jews. He found no synagogue, but he did find women praying at the river. Lydia, a merchant, responded to the message of Christ and offered hospitality to Paul and Silas (Acts 16:14-15). The believers later gathered at the home of this businesswoman and Early Church leader (Acts 16:40).

8. Deacon​

Little is known about Phoebe except that she held the title of “deacon” (Romans 16:1). But many scholars believe Phoebe’s role was to take Paul’s letter to the church in Rome where she would have read it to the believers and even answered questions they may have had. What an amazing responsibility!

9. Teacher​

Priscilla, along with her husband Aquila, was a business owner in Corinth who gave Paul lodging and perhaps a job. She was also a great teacher (Acts 18:26). It’s of note that Luke lists Priscilla first, which may indicate she was the lead teacher of the two.

10. Prophets​

This last one is actually more than one. And in fact, their story continues. Joel 2 foretold a time when God would pour out his Spirit on all flesh: “Your sons and daughters will prophesy” (verse 28). On the Day of Pentecost, Peter confirmed that time had come. And it is still true today! Any daughter of God has the full rights and privilege to declare His Word, testify to His salvation, and prophesy by His Spirit.

10 functions of women don't equate to leading men, in a family, or in ministry.
You have wasted you time trying to refute Paul.

 

[Free]

It's hard not to notice that you ignore or simply dismiss, usually by deflecting, all the hardest arguments showing your position to have seriously difficulties and then just return to the very arguments proven false or inadequate.

Case in point.

I'm done discussing this with you. You are clinging to the supposed doctrine of male superiority, which is not Scriptural. God made men and women to be equal in every area and complementary to each other. End of discussion!

Again, that is a straw man and not at all what the issue is. I have repeatedly stated that men and women are equal, but it doesn't necessarily follow that they supposed to have the same roles or functions within the Church. One last time: it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with equality and everything to do with what the Bible says about the proper functioning of God's church based on his commands and directions for believers.