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Should women teach in the church?

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Do you think it matters what the Bible says about what Christians are and are not to believe and practice?
hold up the M.R admin your putting words into something i never said since you asked me a question .i have said what i stand for every thing i have posted is all scripture. please dont make it sound as if i dont stand for the Bible. i am a pastor and i preach the word i dont tickle ears .

i see your from Canada i dont really know a whole lot about your nation other than what i been told and read.. will you be willing to walk into a Church with a woman preacher. speak up and rebuke her saying on the authority of the word of God . you can not stand in that pulpit you need to get out.

for the record i have stated scripture reads men should lead in the Church. i have also said women can in fact teach sunday school class adults to children. have you ever tried teaching little children ? i have and its tough my wife does that . yes a women just because a women teaches a adult sunday school class.. does not mean she is in authority over the men


what do we say to men who has been divorced several times and made leaders ? what do we do with gays in the pulpit? many things are out of our control ! we can only teach the word and pray it falls on good ground .

each person as a leader can only lead there Flock.. THAT is my point
 
Believe whatever you want. It's of no concern to me. Unlike yourself, I am not under the law. Simply because Paul wrote a rule for a single church two thousand years ago doesn't mean that it should hold true for all time in every place.
Firstly, I am not under the law either. We could dismiss all the NT commands for believers if we use your argument. It should be self-evident why it is such a poor argument. You would do well to sort out your confusion between the two. Secondly, it seems that you need to do more study on what the Bible says on the matter.

1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. (ESV)

1Ti 2:8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
1Ti 2:9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, (ESV)

It doesn't get more clear than that. While he is writing to a single church, which goes without saying, the commands are for all, even if he didn't explicitly say so.

You might want to read this account carefully...

John 1:4-42

Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.

Now he had to go through Samaria. So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

“I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

"Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?” [sound familiar???]

Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did". So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. And because of his words many became believers.

They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

So, what happened here??? Jesus poke to a Samaritan woman! Samaritans were despised by the Jews, and women were the underclass. Either Jesus had no idea what He was doing or He spoke to the woman, telling her that He was the long-awaited Messiah, and she went and told others what she had learned! And many of the Samaritans believed in the Messiah because of what she said.

So, the argument that women shouldn't teach in church is completely negated by this example and others. Jesus told this despised woman that He was the Messiah, and she went and told the news to her townspeople, similar to when He told the women when He was resurrected to go tell the news to His disciples.

It is nonsense to say that women shouldn't teach in the church or anywhere else, unless you claim that Jesus didn't understand God's will. Making what Paul wrote into a new version of the Law is a very serious error!
You are completely ignoring the context of 1 Tim 2:12 and other passages which I have given. This is not in the context of the assembled church. Not even close. Once again, Jesus is bringing up the status of women, and this has zero bearing on 1 Tim 2:12 and other passages.
 
hold up the M.R admin your putting words into something i never said since you asked me a question .i have said what i stand for every thing i have posted is all scripture. please dont make it sound as if i dont stand for the Bible.
I am not putting words in your mouth. You said: "if one thinks it ok for woman teach/preach so be it ..if one be does not so be it". And I simply asked a question. To me, what Scripture says about everything regarding Christian belief and practice, matters. It simply will not do to say that it is okay if a Christian wants to believe in practicing a certain thing that the Bible says is not okay, especially in church. If the Bible isn't clear on a matter, that is one thing, but if it is clear, then we had better believe what it says and practice accordingly.

i see your from Canada i dont really know a whole lot about your nation other than what i been told and read.. will you be willing to walk into a Church with a woman preacher. speak up and rebuke her saying on the authority of the word of God . you can not stand in that pulpit you need to get out.
No, I might just walk out. But I would do my homework first to see what they believe.
 
No, I might just walk out. But I would do my homework first to see what they believe.
lol take the easy way out for the answer.. let me rephrase this if you knew of church You did not attend. would you go in tell them they cant ? i am trying to make a point that your missing. stopping women from preaching. what is YOUR answer
 
It simply will not do to say that it is okay if a Christian wants to believe in practicing a certain thing that the Bible says is not okay, especially in church.
how do you stop it out side your Church is what i have asked many times . i know what to do in my church.. But i cant control others. the argument keeps going back and forth. and forgive me for kicking the golden cow over.. but help fuel it.
 
lol take the easy way out for the answer.. let me rephrase this if you knew of church You did not attend. would you go in tell them they cant ? i am trying to make a point that your missing. stopping women from preaching. what is YOUR answer
I wasn't taking the easy way out. I simply am not going to purposely go to churches that have women preachers, anymore more than I would go to churches that have homosexual clergy, just so I can point out their errors. That is not what we are called to do.

how do you stop it out side your Church is what i have asked many times . i know what to do in my church.. But i cant control others. the argument keeps going back and forth. and forgive me for kicking the golden cow over.. but help fuel it.
Like you said, we can't control others. All church leaders will be held accountable to God. It's not like there are Apostles who go around correcting erroneous Christian beliefs and practices.
 
I wasn't taking the easy way out. I simply am not going to purposely go to churches that have women preachers, anymore more than I would go to churches that have homosexual clergy, just so I can point out their errors. That is not what we are called to do.


Like you said, we can't control others. All church leaders will be held accountable to God. It's not like there are Apostles who go around correcting erroneous Christian beliefs and practices.
bingo i think you got it.
 
Pork is not in the context of the subject. 1 Timothy is part of the Pastoral epistles if that even matters.
The issue of pork was simply to illustrate the complexities of early Christian life. The Jews had their traditions, while to the. Gentiles, Jewish customs were irrelevant, but somehow Paul needed to make peace so the church could be united and here we are fragmentating it again. Timothy had the same problems that Paul had, i.e. people, their customs, and traditions. The apostles needed to be diplomats and would have done well in today's troubled world. Paul went to great lengths to explain the details, taking whole chapters to do it by giving both sides of the argument. But we skip all that and quote a single verse, and that is not the way to do it. We need to consider everything, while remembering Christ's death and resurrection changed it all. Please don't take us back to those dark pre-Christian days.

I noticed someone was talking about head coverings. That was because the rich wives flaunted their wealth by wearing their jewellery in their hair for everyone to see, while the poor women and widows had nothing. Paul's solution was for everyone to cover their head, and in that way, the whole congregation would appear equal in the sight of God.

It gets extremely complicated, and we need to know these things for our own edification, so we don't cause problems by comparing the old that has ended, with the new. God bless.
 
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1Co 14:34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. (ESV)

Free,

Women can't "keep silent" in the churches and also prophesy (1 Cor 11:5). That combination doesn't work.

Oz
 
Free,

Women can't "keep silent" in the churches and also prophesy (1 Cor 11:5). That combination doesn't work.

Oz
I've already addressed this in my previous post to you. As a part of the context of this topic, we must ask what Paul then means for women to "keep silent" if he does allow certain forms of women talking. He is, it appears, speaking of women who ask their husbands questions during church, at a minimum. Perhaps the women were trying to debate and discuss and raise objections in church. My initial point in raising this passage was that a woman was to be in submission to her husband, even in church. So, while Paul allows some talking for women in church, he does not allow all manner of talking, including teaching men, it would seem.
 
You have a lot going on there. I will be brief. A woman still cannot be a leader or Pastor in the church. That is all I am saying. They can teach other woman and children. I am not sure why you brought animals into the mix. Gods design was man and then brought woman out of man. No one said they are not equal. Man was created to be the head.
You mentioned man was created first and that makes him naturally the leader, the more important one. Animals were created before Adam. So, the point doesn't work out. If we're going by order of creation, people would not be important at all, which would be contradictory to what is told to us in Genesis.

You say "a woman can't be a leader," but you haven't even said why. You say, "That's all I'm saying," but where is the Biblical evidence to back it up? What's your actual opinion on it?

To say that women can't preach but men can is inequality. How can men and women be considered equal, but women not be allowed to preach? And often not even allowed to lead hymns, say prayers, or say anything aloud in a church service?

Just because man was created to be the "head" doesn't mean that women are lesser. Women are to work with their husbands, and sometimes this can mean trusting a husband's decision on something when he doesn't have the time to consult his wife. The husband is to have a responsibility in the household, to ensure things are going well, but a woman does, too - what about Proverbs 31? It's a partnership, not a dominant and submissive type deal.
 
You mentioned man was created first and that makes him naturally the leader, the more important one. Animals were created before Adam. So, the point doesn't work out. If we're going by order of creation, people would not be important at all, which would be contradictory to what is told to us in Genesis.

You say "a woman can't be a leader," but you haven't even said why. You say, "That's all I'm saying," but where is the Biblical evidence to back it up? What's your actual opinion on it?

To say that women can't preach but men can is inequality. How can men and women be considered equal, but women not be allowed to preach? And often not even allowed to lead hymns, say prayers, or say anything aloud in a church service?

Just because man was created to be the "head" doesn't mean that women are lesser. Women are to work with their husbands, and sometimes this can mean trusting a husband's decision on something when he doesn't have the time to consult his wife. The husband is to have a responsibility in the household, to ensure things are going well, but a woman does, too - what about Proverbs 31? It's a partnership, not a dominant and submissive type deal.
Leader in the church, as in Pastor. I should have clarified.

Apologies
 
Still wouldn't make sense even then...
once again i let God sort it out but this is what scripture used for men as pastor. why i does not say women i know they have scripture to show . personally i dont why the women would want to pastor. its a great calling but full of challenges .that can cause you to scratch your head.. i have listened to joyce meyers she is ok but not my cup of tea
 
And were off.
It is far easier for a woman to try to serve an imperfect man than to try to serve a perfect God.

Joh 1:38 Then Jesus turned, and seeing them following, said to them, "What do you seek?" They said to Him, "Rabbi" (which is to say, when translated, Teacher), "where are You staying?"
As with preaching, a woman teaching an adult congregation is clearly prohibited, but a godly woman teaching in other circumstances is well, so long as she recognizes that God is the teacher, properly speaking.
I recently had to leave a congregation, mainly due to a woman offering communion.

For those who prefer to hold a different perspective;
Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
This is the main go-to verse for attempts to contradict scripture. It does not refer to male/female equality in the world, but rather it refers to spiritual unity in the juxtaposed kingdom of God.
1Co 11:11 Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord.

It is a blessing to submit to the Lord's will, otherwise there is the freedom of death.
1Co 14:36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
1Co 11:16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

Be well, be blessed.
 
once again i let God sort it out but this is what scripture used for men as pastor. why i does not say women i know they have scripture to show . personally i dont why the women would want to pastor. its a great calling but full of challenges .that can cause you to scratch your head.. i have listened to joyce meyers she is ok but not my cup of tea
There are some women that truly feel it is their calling and have a passion to serve God's church/God's people.
 

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