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Why the Deuterocanonical Books are not Scripture
  1. Not one of the Deuterocanonical Books were written in Hebrew. All of the inspired prophets, poets, and historians wrote the Scripture in the Hebrew language. All of the Deuterocanonical Books are written in Greek with one written only in Latin (imagine that)!
    [/*:m:114b9]
  2. Not one single author of the Deuterocanonical Books claimed inspiration from God.
    [/*:m:114b9]
  3. The Deuterocanonical Books were never acknowledged as sacred Scripture by the Jews. The Jews were the "Keepers of the Hebrew Scripture" as the knowledge of the intricate manner of which the Scribes copied the Hebrew Scriptures was a tremendous tedious endeaver.
    [/*:m:114b9]
  4. The Jews rejected and destroyed the Deuterocanonical Books after the overthrow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
    [/*:m:114b9]
  5. The Deuterocanonical Books were not permitted among the sacred books of Scripture during the first four centuries of the True Christian church (I'm certainly not talking about the Catholic religion which is not Christian).
    [/*:m:114b9]
  6. The Deuterocanonical Books contain stories that contradict the Scriptures. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places.
    [/*:m:114b9]
  7. The Deuterocanonical Books include doctrines that are completely different than the Scriptures, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection. The following verses are taken from the Deuterocanonical Books translation by Ronald Knox dated 1954:[list:114b9]
  8. Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:

    2 Maccabees 12:43-45, 2.000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin.
    [/*:m:114b9]
  9. Salvation by works:

    Ecclesiasticus 3:30, Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin.

    Tobit 12:8-9, 17, It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.
    [/*:m:114b9]
  10. Magic:

    Tobit 6:5-8, If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore.
    [/*:m:114b9]
  11. Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):

    Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.[/*:m:114b9]
[/*:m:114b9][/list:o:114b9]The Deuterocanonical Books teach immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assasination and magical incantation. No Deuterocanonical Book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times. Because of these and other reasons, the Deuterocanonical Books are only valuable as ancient documents illustrative of the manners, language, opinions and history of the East.

Know also that not even all Catholic "Church Fathers" believed the Deuterocanonical Books were scripture. Jerome, (340-420) rejected the Deuterocanonical Books:
  • "As the Church reads the books of Judith and Tobit and Maccabees but does not receive them among the canonical Scriptures, so also it reads Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people, not for the authoritative confirmation of doctrine." - Jerome
 
Here is pretty cool Scan....One of many coming on the reformation and How the Holy Spirit preserved his word, as opposed to the word that mear men wanted.....This is a great little history lesson....It has been many years since I read about luther, but I must say that truly I have enjoyed this...

Note: The popes bull is not what one might think although the name is appropriate....

Luther burns the Pope’s bull, and forever breaks with Rome. Dec. 10, 1520.

Luther was prepared for the bull of excommunication. He could see in it nothing but blasphemous presumption and pious hypocrisy. At first he pretended to treat it as a forgery of Eck. Then he wrote a Latin and German tract, "Against the bull of Antichrist," called it a "cursed, impudent, devilish bull," took up the several charges of heresy, and turned the tables against the Pope, who was the heretic according to the standard of the sacred Scriptures. Hutten ridiculed the bull from the literary and patriotic standpoint with sarcastic notes and queries. Luther attacked its contents with red-hot anger and indignation bordering on frenzy. He thought the last day, the day of Antichrist, had come. He went so far as to say that nobody could be saved who adhered to the bull.

In deference to his friends, he renewed the useless appeal from the Pope to a free general council (Nov. 17, 1520), which he had made two years before (Nov. 28, 1518); and in his appeal he denounced the Pope as a hardened heretic, an antichristian suppresser of the Scriptures, a blasphemer and despiser of the holy Church and of a rightful council.

At the same time he resolved upon a symbolic act which cut off the possibility of a retreat. The Pope had ordered his books, good and bad, without any distinction, to be burned; and they were actually burned in several places, at Cologne even in the presence of the Emperor. They were to be burned also at Leipzig. Luther wanted to show that he too could burn books, which was an old custom (Acts 19:19) and easy business. He returned fire for fire, curse for curse. He made no distinction between truth and error in the papal books, since the Pope had ordered his innocent books to be destroyed as well. He gave public notice of his intention.

On the tenth day of December, 1520, at nine o’clock in the morning, in the presence of a large number of professors and students, he solemnly committed the bull of excommunication, together with the papal decretals, the Canon law, and several writings of Eck and Emser, to the flames, with these words (borrowed from Joshua’s judgment of Achan the thief, Josh. 7:25): "As thou [the Pope] hast vexed the Holy One of the Lord, may the eternal fire vex thee!"

The spot where this happened is still shown outside the Elster Gate at Wittenberg, under a sturdy oak surrounded by an iron railing.
Several hundred students tarried at the fire, which had been kindled by a master of the university, some chanting the Te Deum, others singing funeral dirges on the papal laws; then they made a mock procession through the town, collected piles of scholastic and Romish books, and returning to the place of execution, threw them into the flames.

Luther, with Melanchthon, Carlstadt, and the other doctors and masters, returned home immediately after the act. He at first had trembled at the step, and prayed for light; but after the deed was done, he felt more cheerful than ever. He regarded his excommunication as an emancipation from all restraints of popery and monasticism. On the same day he calmly informed Spalatin of the event as a piece of news.

On the next day he warned the students in the lecture-room against the Romish Antichrist, and told them that it was high time to burn the papal chair with all its teachers and abominations. He publicly announced his act in a Latin and German treatise, "Why the Books of the Pope and his Disciples were burned by Dr. Martin Luther." He justified it by his duties as a baptized Christian, as a sworn doctor of divinity, as a daily preacher, to root out all unchristian doctrines.

He cites from the papal law-books thirty articles and errors in glorification of the papacy, which deserve to be burned; and calls the whole Canon-law "the abomination of desolation" (Matt. 24:15) and antichristian (2 Thess. 2:4), since the sum of its teaching was, that "the Pope is God on earth, above all things, heavenly and earthly, spiritual and temporal; all things belong to the Pope, and no one dare ask, What doest thou?" Simultaneously with this tract, he published an exhaustive defense of all his own articles which had been condemned by the Pope, and planted himself upon the rock of God’s revelation in the Scriptures.

Leo X., after the expiration of the one hundred and twenty days of grace allowed to Luther by the terms of the bull, proceeded to the last step, and on the third day of January, 1521, pronounced the ban against the Reformer, and his followers, and an interdict on the places where they should be harbored. But Luther had deprived the new bull of its effect.

The burning of the Pope’s bull was the boldest and most eventful act of Luther. Viewed in itself, it might indeed have been only an act of fanaticism and folly, and proved a brutum fulmen. But it was preceded and followed by heroic acts of faith in pulling down an old church, and building up a new one. It defied the greatest power on earth, before which emperors, kings, and princes, and all the nations of Europe bowed in reverence and awe. It was the fiery signal of absolute and final separation from Rome, and destroyed the effect of future papal bulls upon one-half of Western Christendom.

It emancipated Luther and the entire Protestant world from that authority, which, from a wholesome school of discipline for young nations, had become a fearful and intolerable tyranny over the intellect and conscience of men.

Luther developed his theology before the eyes of the public; while Calvin, at a later period, appeared fully matured, like Minerva from the head of Jupiter. "I am one of those," he says, "among whom St. Augustin classed himself, who have gradually advanced by writing and teaching; not of those who at a single bound spring to perfection out of nothing.

He called the Pope the most holy and the most hellish father of Christendom. He began in 1517 as a devout papist and monk, with full faith in the Roman Church and its divinely appointed head, protesting merely against certain abuses; in 1519, at the Leipzig disputation, he denied the divine right, and shortly afterwards also the human right, of the papacy; a year later he became fully convinced that the papacy was that antichristian power predicted in the Scriptures, and must be renounced at the risk of a man’s salvation.

There is no doubt that in all these stages he was equally sincere, earnest, and conscientious.

Luther adhered to the position taken in the act of Dec. 10, 1520, with unchanging firmness. He never regretted it for a moment. He had burned the ship behind him; he could not, and he would not, return. To the end of his life he regarded and treated the Pope of Rome in his official capacity as the very Antichrist, and expected that he soon would be destroyed by spiritual force at the second coming of Christ. At Schmalkalden in 1537 he prayed that God might fill all Protestants with hatred of the Pope. One of his last and most violent books is directed "Against the Papacy at Rome, founded by the Devil." Wittenberg, 1545.

He calls Paul III. the "Most hellish Father," and addresses him as "Your Hellishness." instead of "Your Holiness." He promises at the close to do still better in another book, and prays that in case of his death, God may raise another one "a thousandfold more severe; for the devilish papacy is the last evil on earth, and the worst which all the devils with all their power could contrive. God help us. Amen." Thus he wrote, not under the inspiration of liquor or madness, as Roman historians have suggested, but in sober earnest. His dying words, as reported by Ratzeburger, his physician, were a prediction of the approaching death of the papacy: â€â€


"Pestis eram vivus, moriens tua mors ero Papa."

From the standpoint of his age, Luther regarded the Pope and the Turk as "the two arch-enemies of Christ and his Church," and embodied this view in

a hymn which begins, â€â€

"Erhalt uns, Herr, bei deinem Wort
Und steur’ des Papst’s und Tuerken Mord."
This line, like the famous eightieth question of the Heidelberg Catechism which denounces the popish mass as an "accursed idolatry," gave much trouble in mixed communities, and in some it was forbidden by Roman-Catholic magistrates. Modern German hymn-books wisely substitute "all enemies," or "enemies of Christ," for the Pope and the Turk.

In order to form a just estimate of Luther’s views on the papacy, it must not be forgotten that they were uttered in the furnace-heat of controversy, and with all the violence of his violent temper. They have no more weight than his equally sweeping condemnation of Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas.

Schaff, P., & Schaff, D. S. (1997). History of the Christian church.
 
Solo said:
Why the Deuterocanonical Books are not Scripture
  1. Not one of the Deuterocanonical Books were written in Hebrew. All of the inspired prophets, poets, and historians wrote the Scripture in the Hebrew language. All of the Deuterocanonical Books are written in Greek with one written only in Latin (imagine that)!


  1. First of all, that is incorrect. Baruch and 1 Macacabees were written in Hebrew, while Tobit and Judith were written in Aramaic, PERHAPS Hebrew as well.

    Second of all, even if it WAS true, so what? None of the NT books were written in Hebrew. Apparently, God understands both Greek and Hebrew. And probably Aramaic, too...

    Solo said:
    [/*:m:03209]
    [*]Not one single author of the Deuterocanonical Books claimed inspiration from God.

    The vast majority of the NT books ALSO do not make this claim. I would say Revelation is the only clear case of making that self-claim. Another pitiful attempt...

    Solo said:
    [/*:m:03209]
    [*]The Deuterocanonical Books were never acknowledged as sacred Scripture by the Jews. The Jews were the "Keepers of the Hebrew Scripture" as the knowledge of the intricate manner of which the Scribes copied the Hebrew Scriptures was a tremendous tedious endeaver.

    You Protestants must get together and come up with the same retarded ideas, because this one has been mentioned at least three other times here. And I will again say that the Jews never acknowledged ANY book of the New Testament. They CONDEMNED the Synoptic Gospels at Jamnia! Go and follow the Jews, Solo... They got the canon wrong - and even you must admit that.

    Solo said:
    [/*:m:03209]
    [*]The Jews rejected and destroyed the Deuterocanonical Books after the overthrow of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

    The Jews of did this because it was the Bible used by the Christians. It has nothing to do with destroying "unworthy" books.

    Solo said:
    [/*:m:03209]
    [*]The Deuterocanonical Books were not permitted among the sacred books of Scripture during the first four centuries of the True Christian church (I'm certainly not talking about the Catholic religion which is not Christian).

    WHERE on earth do you back up such evidence from? The invisible church had a canon separate from the Catholic Church? Your logic is staggeringly senseless. The invisible Church left records? Where are they? Show me the list of the canon of this invisible Church! LOL!!!

    Solo said:
    [/*:m:03209]
    [*]The Deuterocanonical Books contain stories that contradict the Scriptures. For example, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in three different places.

    Judas Iscariot dies two different deaths... OOPS!

    The point of BOTH of these cases is that they died horrible deaths. Who cares about the actual manner of death...


    Solo said:
    [/*:m:03209]
    [*]The Deuterocanonical Books include doctrines that are completely different than the Scriptures, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.

    That proves nothing, because you come a priori to the table with the false idea that the Deuterocaononicals are not Scriptures. If you go to my post that shows various Church Fathers calling them Scripture, you might change your opinion. Also, one can prove these doctrines WITHOUT the Deuterocanonicals. They just make a stronger continuity between Judaism and Christianity that much more evident.

    Solo said:
    Know also that not even all Catholic "Church Fathers" believed the Deuterocanonical Books were scripture. Jerome, (340-420) rejected the Deuterocanonical Books:[list:03209]"As the Church reads the books of Judith and Tobit and Maccabees but does not receive them among the canonical Scriptures, so also it reads Wisdom and Ecclesiasticus for the edification of the people, not for the authoritative confirmation of doctrine." - Jerome
Solo said:
[/*:m:03209][/list:o:03209]

Well, here, I have done a study, Solo. And I can tell you most assuredly that practically every Father who writes during the first 4 centuries INCLUDES the Deuterocanonicals - at least one of them - in passages with Protocanonicals and calling BOTH of them Scriptures. In many cases, they EXPLICITLY call them Scriptures. You mention the sole exception. A case is not made when one person refuses something, while the rest accept it.

What would you say about the following from just one of these supposed deniers of the Deuterocanonicals as Scriptures?

"But he ought to know that those who wish to live according to the teaching of Sacred Scripture understand the saying, 'The knowledge of the unwise is as talk without sense,' [Sirach 21:18] and have learnt 'to be ready always to give an answer to everyone that asketh us a reason for the hope that is in us.’ [1 Pt 3:15] " Origen, Against Celsus, 7:12 (A.D. 248),in ANF, IV:615

or this?

But that we may believe on the authority of holy Scripture that such is the case, hear how in the book of Maccabees, where the mother of seven martyrs exhorts her son to endure torture, this truth is confirmed; for she says, ' ask of thee, my son, to look at the heaven and the earth, and at all things which are in them, and beholding these, to know that God made all these things when they did not exist.' [2 Maccabees 7:28]" Origen, Fundamental Principles, 2:2 (A.D. 230),in ANF, IV:270

2 Maccabees is Holy Scriptures!!!

So says the greatest Scriptural scholar of the era...

Martin Luther is roasting in hell wishing he had never undercut and destroyed part of the Word of God. I pray you do not continue to make the same mistake because you read biased Protestant misinformation about the Canon. It is clear that your information on the subject is very lacking.

Any unbiased person searching for the truth cannot but help come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is correct and you are wrong.

Regards
 
Fran,
Your opinion and bias mean little in the Kingdom of God. Only the truth stands in the Kingdom of God, and the Roman Catholic false teachings are from the enemy of God.

All who are born again see this truth. Those who suck on the teats of pagan Mary for their sanctification will be grinding their teeth in pain and agony at the coming of Jesus Christ.

The Roman Catholic "church" is the seat of satan, and the queen of heaven is the demon that the Israelites worshipped in error according to Jeremiah.
 
francisdesales said:
Martin Luther is roasting in hell wishing he had never undercut and destroyed part of the Word of God.

LOL, Don't u mean purgatory? What gives you the right to play God?...A bit hypocritical don't you think....You seem to be playing God here by suggesting that Luther is in Hell....
 

Biblecatholic
Consider this a formal warning for an ad homien attack against the staff
I have removed your post...Two more and you will be banned or suspended.....JG
 
reply

Solo, Javier and other born again Christians, I guess we are in trouble according to Bibecatholic.



May God bless, Golfjack
 
Solo said:
I have read enough of the Roman Catholic false teachings for the last 23 years. I did plenty of research and wrote a college thesis 20+ years ago entitled "Roman Catholicism: A Shadow of Christianity".

Keep your eyes on the Roman Catholic approved history books; I will keep my eyes on Scripture, and the truth of the Holy Spirit.


WHY IS THIS NOT DELETED. MY COMMENT WAS ABOUT THIS LIE!!!!!!!!

ps EVEN SAUL THOUGHT HE WAS DOING THE WILL OF GOD? ASK FOR THAT CONVERSION CAUSE GOD MIGHT NOT KNOCK YOU OFF YOUR RIDE(; and without that youll still bearing false witness
 
biblecatholic said:
WHY IS THIS NOT DELETED. MY COMMENT WAS ABOUT THIS LIE!!!!!!!!

ps EVEN SAUL THOUGHT HE WAS DOING THE WILL OF GOD? ASK FOR THAT CONVERSION CAUSE GOD MIGHT NOT KNOCK YOU OFF YOUR RIDE(; and without that youll still bearing false witness
Let me know when you would like a Bible lesson with truth instead of the garbage that the roman catholic church teaches. You really haven't got that much time before you have no opportunity at eternal life in Christ Jesus. Until you are born again, born of God, you will not know or understand the spiritual things of the Kingdom of God. The roman catholic church would have you remain enslaved to the lies of the devil so that you can never be born again.
 
Solo said:
Fran,
Your opinion and bias mean little in the Kingdom of God. Only the truth stands in the Kingdom of God, and the Roman Catholic false teachings are from the enemy of God.


That is true, my opinion means nothing. Nor does yours. All that matters is truth. And historically speaking, my comments on the Deuterocanonicals are truth. Can you deny that Origen wrote that the Deuterocanonicals were Scriptures? Or is this attempt to tell me I mean little in the Kingdom your way of defending your pitiful position?

Solo said:
All who are born again see this truth. Those who suck on the teats of pagan Mary for their sanctification will be grinding their teeth in pain and agony at the coming of Jesus Christ.

Where does the Bible say that those "born again" see all truth? Where does the Bible say that those "born again" know everything about history, archeology, theology, and an asundry of other disciplines? You are going WAY beyond what the Bible says on this one, Mike.

Solo said:
The Roman Catholic "church" is the seat of satan, and the queen of heaven is the demon that the Israelites worshipped in error according to Jeremiah.

Sticks and stones...

You can call us all the names you want, but the Church continues to pray for your return to Mother Church.

Regards
 
jgredline said:
LOL, Don't u mean purgatory? What gives you the right to play God?...A bit hypocritical don't you think....You seem to be playing God here by suggesting that Luther is in Hell....

What does the Bible say about people who teach falsely to the flock, Javier? What do the later letters from John and Jude say? The Pastorals? Apparently, those who knowingly teach false doctrine are NOT part of the community. John even says they never were part of "us". Maybe a bit overboard, but there it is. Those outside the community will not be saved.

Now, did Luther repent? Perhaps. Hitler might have, as well. So I suppose I spoke too quickly in my judgment. But unless Luther had a deathbed change of heart, I wouldn't put a lot of money on whether he is in heaven.

Regards
 
Solo said:
Let me know when you would like a Bible lesson with truth instead of the garbage that the roman catholic church teaches. You really haven't got that much time before you have no opportunity at eternal life in Christ Jesus. Until you are born again, born of God, you will not know or understand the spiritual things of the Kingdom of God. The roman catholic church would have you remain enslaved to the lies of the devil so that you can never be born again.

So when are you going to respond to my post regarding the Deuterocanonicals? Is this all you can do? Is this what the "spirit" is leading you to write? Don't address the truth, just return to the same old "smear the Church" tactics...

We note the Spirit's work within someone by one's actions. I don't think many Christians, Catholic or Protestant, would consider your recent responses guided by God's Spirit...

Regards
 
francisdesales said:
Martin Luther is roasting in hell wishing he had never undercut and destroyed part of the Word of God.

francisdesales said:
Now, did Luther repent? Perhaps. Hitler might have, as well. So I suppose I spoke too quickly in my judgment. But unless Luther had a deathbed change of heart, I wouldn't put a lot of money on whether he is in heaven.

Wow ...

francisdesales said:
What does the Bible say about people who teach falsely to the flock, Javier? What do the later letters from John and Jude say? The Pastorals? Apparently, those who knowingly teach false doctrine are NOT part of the community. John even says they never were part of "us". Maybe a bit overboard, but there it is. Those outside the community will not be saved.

So essentially what you are telling me is that anyone outside the Catholic church is headed straight for damnation?
 
Fnerb said:
So essentially what you are telling me is that anyone outside the Catholic church is headed straight for damnation?

Certainly not.

I had hoped that my past posts on this matter would set the subject straight. I have tried to present the Church's teaching on the matter, to no avail, I guess.

I am not speaking of all Protestants. The Catechism itself tells us that people of good will who are ignorant of the Catholic Church and her teachings are not rejecting God. There is a difference between ignorance and rejection. Thus, we believe Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Protestants individually can enter the Kingdom. We also believe that many Catholics will not.

My post was directed towards Luther. Would you deny that he was aware of Catholic teachings and still rejected them? Luke 10:16 addresses this matter. Rejection is different than ignorance.

I think most people who are not Catholic remain so because they are not aware of her teachings - thus, are ignorant. I cannot say the same of those who really know the Church's teachings and reject her just the same.

In the end, it is right that you chastize me, because I don't know Luther's state of mind at his death.

Regards
 
The roman catholic cult teaches that unless you become a member of the roman catholic cult, you will not be accepted into God's Kingdom. This is a far cry from the truth of the Scriptures. No where in Scripture does this teaching appear.

The Word of God says the following concerning salvation:
  • "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9-13 KJV
The roman catholic cult says the following concerning salvation:
  • "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation. that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God" (Vatican Council II, p. 456).
Roman Catholicism makes salvation a long, complicated process with no assurance of eternal life and forgiveness of all sin. Baptism, Mass, Confession, prayers to Mary and the Saints, good works, and purgatory are all added to faith in Christ. By contrast, the Bible teaches salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Bible salvation is God's free gift to any sinner who believes that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their defense. Bible salvation gives immediate assurance of eternal life. No church ever saved anyone, but Christ can and will save everyone who will come and trust Him as their Saviour. Membership or faith in a church does not secure salvation for anyone, but trust Christ and Him alone and you will be saved for all eternity! Would you like to be saved?
 
Solo said:
The roman catholic cult teaches that unless you become a member of the roman catholic cult, you will not be accepted into God's Kingdom. This is a far cry from the truth of the Scriptures. No where in Scripture does this teaching appear.

The Word of God says the following concerning salvation:
  • "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9-13 KJV
The roman catholic cult says the following concerning salvation:
  • "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help towards salvation. that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that Our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the people of God" (Vatican Council II, p. 456).
Roman Catholicism makes salvation a long, complicated process with no assurance of eternal life and forgiveness of all sin. Baptism, Mass, Confession, prayers to Mary and the Saints, good works, and purgatory are all added to faith in Christ. By contrast, the Bible teaches salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Bible salvation is God's free gift to any sinner who believes that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their defense. Bible salvation gives immediate assurance of eternal life. No church ever saved anyone, but Christ can and will save everyone who will come and trust Him as their Saviour. Membership or faith in a church does not secure salvation for anyone, but trust Christ and Him alone and you will be saved for all eternity! Would you like to be saved?

there is so much you just really dont understand. you make Jesus out to be a one night stand when you say salvation is like you say. you do not preach the gospel you preach "your" gospel and Christ warned us about people like you
2 pet 3:16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

you quote scripture as satan did in matt 4:6

2 thess 3:6 In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the tradition you received from us.


many on this forum although we disagree we have a respect for others and we have this because we know Christ, we disagree and get mad but its done with a good heart. you sir need to ask Jesus into your life humble yourself and do His will not yours stop trusting in yourself trust in God
 
Solo said:
The roman catholic cult teaches that unless you become a member of the roman catholic cult, you will not be accepted into God's Kingdom. This is a far cry from the truth of the Scriptures. No where in Scripture does this teaching appear.

You must have got an "F" on that supposed thesis you wrote about the Catholic Church, because you don't know such basic concepts that she teaches. The Catechism never mentions such dribble that you pour forth. I would suggest you read the pertinent sections if you want to REALLY know what she teaches. Otherwise, you are following your "popette" blindly and making yourself look foolish by saying such things.

The quote about the fullness doesn't exclude individuals. That is you reading your theology into ANOTHER set of writings, just like you do with the Bible. If you took the time to ACTUALLY study the Catechism, you would find that even Muslims and Jews can be saved. IF that were the case, how could they contradict themselves by saying that one must be a Roman Catholic to be saved - and then say Muslims can be saved???

The rest is off topic. However, if I had the time, it could be just as easily refuted as I have done with your "thoughts" on the Deuterocanonicals or Sola Scriptura. All you are doing is trying to change the subject and turn the tables away from the obvious weakness of the Protestant position on the Bible.

Regards
 
francisdesales said:
Thus, we believe Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Protestants individually can enter the Kingdom. We also believe that many Catholics will not.

Regards

So you are saying that Muslims and Hindus, regardless if they believe in Jesus Christ, are going to Heaven?
 
francisdesales said:
You must have got an "F" on that supposed thesis you wrote about the Catholic Church, because you don't know such basic concepts that she teaches. The Catechism never mentions such dribble that you pour forth. I would suggest you read the pertinent sections if you want to REALLY know what she teaches. Otherwise, you are following your "popette" blindly and making yourself look foolish by saying such things.

The quote about the fullness doesn't exclude individuals. That is you reading your theology into ANOTHER set of writings, just like you do with the Bible. If you took the time to ACTUALLY study the Catechism, you would find that even Muslims and Jews can be saved. IF that were the case, how could they contradict themselves by saying that one must be a Roman Catholic to be saved - and then say Muslims can be saved???

The rest is off topic. However, if I had the time, it could be just as easily refuted as I have done with your "thoughts" on the Deuterocanonicals or Sola Scriptura. All you are doing is trying to change the subject and turn the tables away from the obvious weakness of the Protestant position on the Bible.

Regards
You cannot agree because you promote the lies of the roman catholic cult. The catholic catechism is clear concerning those that deny the roman catholic cult and its teachings; those who deny the roman catholic church end up in hell according to you. Look where you put dear Martin Luther, one of the spokesmen of God during the roman catholic murderous years. Before Jesus returns, the roman catholic cult will perform the same murderous actions against believers as it is her father the devil's will.
 

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