Who is God obeying?

[Imagican]

Yeah, I noticed that about you. I am sure that the Lord Himself keeps careful notes on those who think of His Word as 'simple quotes'.

I praise God for the power in His Word. There is such power in the light that those who walk in darkness are blinded by it.

Case in point; God is love. A simple quote. But, when one takes into consideration that the ENTIRE BIBLE IS an 'explanation of this love', we ONLY THEN 'begin' to realize the COMPLEXITY of THIS LOVE. The 'simple quote means LITTLE other than 'three words' that to MANY are MOSTLY passed right by with but LITTLE consideration. Once one BEGINS to understand this LOVE are they able to REALIZE 'just how MUCH' is contained within these 'simple words'.

And gabby, I attempted to explain that MOST here SEEM to NEED the administering of MILK rather than MEAT. For those, the only thing that I can suggest is to READ and PRAY and SUBMIT to the 'will of God'. For, so long as we insist on 'self', there is LITTLE that one CAN digest 'other THAN'; MILK.

Ruben,

Eve WAS INDEED deceived. But she was enticed INTO the ACCEPTANCE of deception by what was IN HER HEART. For if TRUE LOVE had been in balance in her heart, then NO WORDS could have turned her from the LOVE of God. Satan KNEW what it was that she 'longed for'. And he offered the EXACT WORDS that she WANTED to hear.

Just as with ANY temptation; We are ONLY tempted by that which WE desire. Example; Some people are thrilled by the thought of murder. Some people will never even entertain such demons. No matter HOW MUCH they could be exposed to 'temptation', they will STILL NEVER ENTERTAIN such demons. Others have 'murder in their hearts'. It's 'something' that intrigues them. And it is THESE that are susceptible to such temptation. The MORE they are intrigued by it, the MORE likely they will be enticed to perform it.

MEC

 

[Ruben]

Ruben wrote:



Question 1. Why didn't God destroy Lucifer or quiet him in some way early on so a whole lot of pain and suffering could have been avoided?

I believe Jehovah was trapped and could do nothing else but allow Lucifer full rein as has happened.



God greatly desires all men to be saved. However, with what we know, God desires that men come to Him out of love. In other words, that men have free will to choose Him. To choose to be LIKE Him in dying to self through our love of others.

“…out of love.†This is what I am saying, that to have a connection with the Creator on a level few of us can relate to. Those that died at the burning stake or who gave up their lives in any way for God did so joyously because they loved Him on this level. In order to know this or feel it in their hearts they had to see or understand God’s love to the point that His love overpowered anything and everything that would be offensive to the Father. I believe those who were martyr for Christ sake held a level of love for God that the flames could not quench or quiet.

Suffering is a great mystery. We know it has incredible value, though, because God HIMSELF decided to undergo it to show His love for us. As such, with this model for us, apparently, we become more like God when we also suffer for the sake of others. When we give of ourselves to others. When we willingly surrender our desires for selfish desires for the sake of another. None of this is possible if man doesn't have the option of choosing evil over good. Thus, God allows Lucifer to continue to tempt men to follow his own ways rather than God.

Indeed suffering does have an immeasurable value. You sound like a reasonable thinker and I feel that you know the love of God by the gentle and honest answers you gave. I would appreciate your consideration of the following: Jesus came to earth as human and as the Son of God. Did He not come here to suffer as we fallen beings and to show us the Father? Why can we not just accept that what our Savior did was not to pay a price as in commerce, but simply to show the entire universe the depth of His love. It is no little thing that our Creator allowed His creation to kill Him as one of us. The personal ‘price’ as in suffering will never be fully understood by any other than the Godhead. We can never know what the Father and Son sacrificed on behalf of humanity.


God certainly wasn't trapped. The problem is that most of us see suffering as ONLY a negative. The saints never saw suffering in that light - nor did Christ. It is an opportunity of showing our love for others.

I contend that God was trapped. That is what love does, it gives the heart little or no ultimatum. The Father and Son could do nothing else than to follow the laws of Love. Besides, is it not written that the plan of salvation was determined before the foundation of the world?

Sinias wrote:


Question 2. Was Eve deceived into taking of the fruit or did she go into it with a wide eyed rebellion that had been cooking in the back of her head for some time? Rational and reasonable thinking tells me that a rebellion does not just pop up at a moments notice. Rebellion is an act of discontent that takes time to develope.


Eve participate in the sin of Adam. It is difficult to speculate on the knowledge Eve had when taking the fruit, but we know that she was given a command by God and was cognizant of it. She also fell for the twisting of God's intent through the temptations of Satan, which means she had rational thought and a desire to satisfy herself. She sinned, but it was Adam's sin that effected all of humanity.

We don't know how long Eve "formulated rebellion" in her mind. It appears from the story that she acted on the temptation immediately, which tells me that she was vunerable to taking the easy way to holiness.

The circumstances under which we live necessitate that we become informed of the dangers around us as early in life as possible. We teach our children not to talk to strangers and so on. The way we generally learn what to avoid is a trial and error process. The things that happen to us prepare us to do battle with life’s foes. I maintain that Eve, never having been exposed to these conditions, was as innocent and vulnerable as very young children of today.

Regards
_________________
"The Christianity of history is not Protestantism...This is shown in the determination...of dispensing with historical Christianity altogether, and of forming a Christianity from the Bible alone" Cardinal Newman before his conversion to Catholicism