What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

    Read The Gospel Online.

Who is God obeying?

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,048.00
Goal
$1,038.00
Donate View
Let me put a few points another way, The God of the Bible very much unlike other nations superstitious gods. Jehovah or Yahweh, whatever, treats his people as his own children. Foriegn gods only demanded sacrifices to please them. Foriegn nation records usually only contain volumnous acounts of victory with meager sentences of defeat or none at all. When God dealt with Israel he told the whole story, both good and bad. Because ...

Secondly, hypothetically speaking, say you rob a car, you get caught, later on you come to the judge. Even though you did repent, getting caught returning the car to its owner, writing a note to say your sorry, and leaving your number so you can pay for damages. You tell the judge, I'm sorry and repent, please forgive me! Even if the people, you stole the car from forgive you, and plead with the judge, their still can be consequences, right? The Judge is an impartial overseerer of the law and its his duty to carry it out right?

Can you not see that once God sets the laws in motion they can't be changed or tinkered with, at least not easily. This is an extremely exagerated example. But the point is sin causes consequences we must face, one way or another. God acting as our Father to a Son or Daughter, wants to make sure the Child understands the wrong he has commited. So it doesn't happen again. Nowadays, everything is turned upside down as far as morals go. 50 years ago if you chewed gum in class you were bad, nowadays kids carry guns. This is because the world has put God out of theirs minds and choses to ignore him.
 
Let me also say that, the Law God gave to the Hebrews had alot to do with it. Without going into the finer points of the Law, let me suggest a few points of advice as examples. God's dietary laws were meant to keep Israel from becoming sick (from unknown causes to them) such as eating pork, crab, and other unclean animals, because these animals are scavengers. Scavengers are the world's Sanitation Engineers, there bodies allow for the digestion of chemicals in nature that would harm us. So, eating them is no good. Still even today. God never ended the dietary laws he established.

Secondly, theologians, today point out were in the age of grace (grace meanss favor you and I can't earn or merit by works). During the time of Moses they were in the Dispensation of the Law. Before that the Dispensation of Conscious. And during Adam's time the Dispensation of Innocence. The Next Dispensation will be of God's Wrath on Earth. Christ came to fulfill the Law. Because under the Law, one thing had to be sacrificed for another's atonement. Christ's Sacrifice ended the need for animals (or man) to die by sacrifice, an inadequete sacrifice for our sins. Because he in essence became all of us, so that God could redeem us.
 
Ruben said:
LoneVoice,
No the 'hate' idea is not mine. A lot of other people though have expressed belief in God's burning wrath.

Again, the Bible portrays God as fierce and angry while Jesus was portrayed as being meek in character. Jesus was slow and specific about what angered Him.

How can I look to the life of Jesus and study His perfect nature and then turn right around and read where God is so filled with rage against man that He can hardly hold Himself back?

Still, why does God need for something to die?
Click to expand...

When gold, silver and jewels are put through the fire, they are purified. When wood, hay and weeds are put through the fire, they turn to ash and blow away.
In the same way, when those who turn back to God, repent of sin and desire to obey, go through death, they are purified, raised in the power of the resurrection and receive eternal life.
Jesus took our sin for us. And was raised from the dead so that we could be made pure.

The hatred and wrath of God is toward sin and wickedness, unrighteousness and injustice. He so loved the world that He gave His Son so that we could be saved. Greater love has no man than this. A love so great that He has prepared a place for us that is free from sin. There is no wickedness there. No pain. no sickness. No worry. No poverty. No suffering.

His wrath? He is long-suffering. Waiting for us to get a clue, and come back to Him so that we do not die in our sin. Watching as He gives them one chance after another to repent. Calls them time after time after time to return to Him.

As I watch people make the same mistakes over and over and over, repeat their same hateful, wicked, self-righteous, and stupid sins....I stand amazed at God's love and patience.

Perhaps the perspective all has to do with which side of the cross you are standing on.
 
Are we suppose to be naturally drawn to Jehovah because we behold His goodness and righteousness and spontaneously 'fall in love' with Him? Or are we suppose to cower in fear of Him because of His anger?

If so then why isn't the central theme of salvation God's Righteousness instead of His wrath?

If I'm pondering vacationing in Hawaii and the agent for the Bahamas Islands is wanting my business would he be most successful in presenting his product in a positive and superior way or by demeaning the quality of Hawaii?

Do we run toward Jehovah as our precious Father or run toward Him as a dog who knows it is going to get kicked by its master if it doesn't?
 


The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7


  • Psalm 2:11
    Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

    Psalm 5:7
    But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

    Psalm 9:20
    Put them in fear, O LORD: that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah.

    Psalm 14:5
    There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.

    Psalm 15:4
    In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.

    Psalm 19:9
    The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

    Psalm 22:23
    Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

    Psalm 22:25
    My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

    Psalm 23:4
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

    Psalm 25:14
    The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

    Psalm 31:19
    Oh how great is thy goodness, which thou hast laid up for them that fear thee; which thou hast wrought for them that trust in thee before the sons of men!

    Psalm 33:8
    Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.

    Psalm 33:18
    Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;

    Psalm 34:7
    The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

    Psalm 34:9
    O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.

    Psalm 34:11
    Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    Psalm 36:1
    The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.

    Psalm 40:3
    And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.

    Psalm 55:19
    God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God.

    Psalm 60:4
    Thou hast given a banner to them that fear thee, that it may be displayed because of the truth. Selah.

    Psalm 61:5
    For thou, O God, hast heard my vows: thou hast given me the heritage of those that fear thy name.

    Psalm 64:9
    And all men shall fear, and shall declare the work of God; for they shall wisely consider of his doing.

    Psalm 66:16
    Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul.

    Psalm 67:7
    God shall bless us; and all the ends of the earth shall fear him.

    Psalm 72:5
    They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.

    Psalm 85:9
    Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.

    Psalm 86:11
    Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.

    Psalm 103:11
    For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

    Psalm 103:13
    Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.

    Psalm 103:17
    But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

    Psalm 111:5
    He hath given meat unto them that fear him: he will ever be mindful of his covenant.

    Psalm 111:10
    The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

    Psalm 115:11
    Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.

    Psalm 115:13
    He will bless them that fear the LORD, both small and great.

    Psalm 118:4
    Let them now that fear the LORD say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

    Psalm 119:38
    Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear.

    Psalm 119:63
    I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts.

    Psalm 145:19
    He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.

    Psalm 147:11
    The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.
 
fear
1. a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid.
2. a specific instance of or propensity for such a feeling: an abnormal fear of heights.
3. concern or anxiety; solicitude: a fear for someone's safety.
4. reverential awe, esp. toward God.
5. that which causes a feeling of being afraid; that of which a person is afraid: Cancer is a common fear.
–v.t.
6. to regard with fear; be afraid of.
7. to have reverential awe of.
8. Archaic. to experience fear in (oneself).
–v.i.
9. to have fear; be afraid.


1 Cor 13:4-8
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.
NIV

1 John 4:7-8
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
NIV

Which one, fear or love? It cannot be both simultaneously.
 
Ruben said:
Which one, fear or love? It cannot be both simultaneously.
Click to expand...
Those that do not fear the LORD are not kept by the LOVE of GOD:
  • Psalm 36:1
    The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.

    Psalm 55:19
    God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God.
Those that DO fear the LORD ARE kept by the LOVE of GOD:
  • Psalm 85:9
    Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.

    Psalm 103:11
    For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

    Psalm 103:13
    Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.

    Psalm 115:11
    Ye that fear the LORD, trust in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.

    Psalm 145:19
    He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him: he also will hear their cry, and will save them.

    Psalm 147:11
    The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.

    Psalm 25:14
    The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

    Psalm 31:19
    Oh how great is thy goodness, which thou hast laid up for them that fear thee; which thou hast wrought for them that trust in thee before the sons of men!

    Psalm 33:18
    Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;

    Psalm 34:7
    The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

    Psalm 34:9
    O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them that fear him.
Those that heed instruction and LOVE wisdom fear the LORD; however, there are those who DO NOT FEAR the LORD for they have no knowledge; therefore, they despise wisdom and instruction:
  • The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7
 
Ruben said:
fear
1. a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid.
2. a specific instance of or propensity for such a feeling: an abnormal fear of heights.
3. concern or anxiety; solicitude: a fear for someone's safety.
4. reverential awe, esp. toward God.
5. that which causes a feeling of being afraid; that of which a person is afraid: Cancer is a common fear.
–v.t.
6. to regard with fear; be afraid of.
7. to have reverential awe of.
8. Archaic. to experience fear in (oneself).
–v.i.
9. to have fear; be afraid.


1 Cor 13:4-8
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.
NIV

1 John 4:7-8
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
NIV

Which one, fear or love? It cannot be both simultaneously.
Click to expand...

Those who do not know Jesus Christ as Lord and SAVIOR can't possibly know what 1 cor 13 IS ALL ABOUT...Why? Because it is discernernd by the Holy Spirit and those Who DO NOT have the Holy Spirit have no idea what AGAPE love is...Those who are BORN AGAIN will have a healthy respect for their father, Those who are NOT BORN AGAIN have much reason to fear because.....Math 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: [torment] but the righteous into life eternal.

So Ruben, indeed you have reason to fear as is evidence by your postings and the way you believe God to be...Your confused and God is not a God of confusion.....
 
Ruben said:
Here is my point of confusion:

If God demands satisfaction and retribution for His hate and wrath and Jesus came to earth to live and die to abate the Father's anger then how can it be that Jesus said many time to 'see the Father look at Me'?

There is a contradiction in that Jesus demonstrated love toward humanity while God seems intent on venting His anger to the point of killing.

I don't get it, how can the two be married into the same cause when the Son is demonstrating love and the Father is portrayed as being so angry?
Click to expand...

Ruben,

Imagine being arrested for a crime. You committed it, no doubt. You know that there is going to be a heavy fine for this, and that you can not even come close to coming up with the price for it. You are going to have to explain to your father what you did and ask for his help.

The time comes for you to appear before the judge. You are taken into the courtroom, and sitting in the judges seat...is your father.
 
So what you are telling me, that you people are afraid of God?

Some of you seem ready to spark-up hell’s fire for me already. Well don’t be so quick to strike that match.

You jgredline seem to think you are the Pope and you and Gabby seem to be so ready to judge people. Were you appointed this position directly as the assignment from God or do you just assume to know God’s mind?

You both seem so ready to condemn, are you really that assured that judging others is condoned by Jehovah? What little I know about the Bible and Jesus’ teachings I do know that passing judgment on others is not recommended of fellow humans. You do know the speck v. the log thing don’t you? You might want to put a check on the fires of hell for me and temporarily set your self-righteousness aside and do a little self-examination.

What I fear most are people that think themselves righteous with full knowledge. Their rational is that if they are on God’s side they can do no wrong.
 
Ruben,
I kinda sorta, think maybe, you might, could possibly have misunderstood something. But I am not sure.

Are you so desperately looking for hate and judgment that you see it when it is not there? I gave the illustration of the judge being your father, wrongly assuming that you would get the point. Forgive me for that. Let me pick up where I left off.

You a sinner, walk into the courtroom where the judge over all judges sits on the bench. That judge is your loving father. The sin must be paid for. SO HE PAYS THE PRICE FOR YOU. All you need to do is accept it.


Judgmental? If your toes were stepped on it is because you are included in the word all.

ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD.

You can't stop there and then wonder why you aren't where you are going. Earlier I said that the perspective depends on what side of the cross you are on. Keep on going Ruben. Get to the foot of the cross. Look at what Jesus did for you so that you do not incur the wrath that is due all of us. Become born again, filled with the Holy Spirit, and experience the love of God.
 
"Keep on going Ruben. Get to the foot of the cross."

Why do you assume that I do not know the love of Jehovah? Did I curse God or talk disparaging of Him. No.

I simply have decided to look at God the Father exactly as Jesus instructed all to do.

I don't care how you color it, 'if any man dares to stand against God he does so at his own peril'. This is the ultimate after every thing is said and done man is faced with the ultimatum of obey me or die. According to which you hold as truth sinners will either burn a painful death for a measured time or forever.

Isn't it a shame that what God the Father is offering is so unlovely that if you don't accept it you don't deserve it and you die. But according to what a whole lot of people embrace as absolute truth is exactly this.

I say that those who are portraying Jehovah as such are committing a grievous error. Mankind, in his limited thinking has to view their God as angry and vengeful. This is not what Jesus portrayed. The Son of the living God was about love not rules and condemnation. He was about salvation though loving Him, not crawling to the Cross, which is most commendable, but coming to a full understanding of the plan of salvation.

If one can come to behold Jehovah as the Majesty of the universe and not an ultimate threat then love, true unrestrained love for the Father will grow. But only through understanding that Jesus in His life here is a perfect portrail of His Father.
 
Ruben said:
Why do you assume . . .
Click to expand...

The comments that I have made are solely based on the comments that you have made. You speak as one who does not now know the Creator. You speak as one who is belligerent towards him. You speak as one who has animosity towards God and Christians.

It now seems as if what you are saying is that your comments are simply bait on a hook.

Ruben, do you have a goal here? walk a mile in the shoes of your readers. Go back and read your comments. Those of us who read the op are wondering if we are talking to an antichrist who is making accusations towards a God that he thinks is hateful, or a lost and hurting soul that is seeking salvation, or the devils advocate.


Ruben, you now claim that you have a relationship with the God that you do not understand. Here is my advice. Prayer works. Ask Him your questions. He has a better clue about what it is that you want to know.

Blessings
 
Let me ask you a question. Would you support a law that makes it a crime to burn the flag?

If you respond 'yes' then you don't appear to believe that the Father is Righteous and good enough to entice His creation to love and honor Him?

If you answer 'no' on the basis that true understanding of what it means to have the freedom to burn the flag, intime, will produce a greater respect for what the flag represents.

My thesis is that once all peoples have the full and true understanding, in part, of what the Godhead of Heaven has suffered on behalf of lost humanity, then the "new heart" of flesh that the Creator promises will find nothing of a higher honor than to do the will of the Father.

Is this so hard to understand?
 
Ruben said:
Let me ask you a question. Would you support a law that makes it a crime to burn the flag?

If you respond 'yes' then you don't appear to believe that the Father is Righteous and good enough to entice His creation to love and honor Him?

If you answer 'no' on the basis that true understanding of what it means to have the freedom to burn the flag, intime, will produce a greater respect for what the flag represents.

My thesis is that once all peoples have the full and true understanding, in part, of what the Godhead of Heaven has suffered on behalf of lost humanity, then the "new heart" of flesh that the Creator promises will find nothing of a higher honor than to do the will of the Father.

Is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

Hi Ruben,

Are you saying that if all men were educated enough in the true nature of God that they would all be drawn to honour God?
 
Ruben.
I am judging you by your own words. I do not believe you know the Lord Jesus Christ....You do not bear good fruit and Yes I am judging you by the same standards that I want to be judged by.

Like little Angel said...Go back and read your post...When you are Born Again you will be able see, until then the natural man will not understand 1 cor 2
 
Ruban, Fear of the Lord, isn't just a bad feeling about something. I fear being hit by a Bus while trying to catch one. I fear if I stick my finger in an electric socket I may get a shock. This fear from knowing something is potentially dangerous is just the proper concern over the consequences of an action. The Fear of the Lord encompasses both this feeling. As well as a reverance for who he is. Not some fearmongering sadist, who's every word and action is full of threats. Only man and the devil are hiding around each corner waiting for you to screw up so they can rub it in. God is patient, which is why Christ came into this world. He knows the burden of our afflictions. Paul says the Law was a schoolmaster, to teach us right from wrong. The law being perfect could not be mastered by fallible man. God knew this. The Law like a mirror could only look back at us and show us our faults. The Seperation we had from God was eliminated when Christ rose from the dead. This is proved also by the fact that The High Priest was the only One allowed into the Holy of Holies Once every year to make sacrifice for God's people. Because even Jewish literature menrtions the fact that the veil that seperated the Holy of Holies from the outside world was split from top to bottom that night. Only God could have done this since it would have been to high for an ordinary person to do this.
 
Ruben said:
Let me ask you a question. Would you support a law that makes it a crime to burn the flag?

If you respond 'yes' then you don't appear to believe that the Father is Righteous and good enough to entice His creation to love and honor Him?

If you answer 'no' on the basis that true understanding of what it means to have the freedom to burn the flag, intime, will produce a greater respect for what the flag represents.

My thesis is that once all peoples have the full and true understanding, in part, of what the Godhead of Heaven has suffered on behalf of lost humanity, then the "new heart" of flesh that the Creator promises will find nothing of a higher honor than to do the will of the Father.

Is this so hard to understand?
Click to expand...

Okay, Ruben, suppose that we can see your point here. Just how does all of this effect the price of tea in China?
 
jgredline
By any way you put it you are still judging me and that is not your right. You may assess my position or intentions concerning your beliefs and you may conclude that I don't think or believe as you. You can not and should not attempt to discern my relationship with Christ and the Father. Who do you think you are?

stranger,
Yes and why not, does this not make the greater sense? Love relationships are established through coming to know and most important trust one another. The whole process is natural and spontaneous. Relationships depend upon both parties wanting and investing in one another.

When was the last time a sign from heaven, as a communication coming from God, shook the world's consciousness. For the most part God is little more than a rumor. Too, much of what is known of God the Father is subject to the one that has the greater degree of control in this world.

Would it not be on a more even plane from which to make our 'big choice' as to know that God the Father is worthy and deserving of His creation's love, honor, and respect?

Most of the world over seems to be waiting on their God to return to this earth and 'clean house'. They are expecting and looking for a God that is filled with rage against everyone who doesn't comply to His reputed demands. Against what, a bunch of ignorant (uninformed) humans that just didn't get the message yet. The Jews were expecting the Messiah to establish His earthly kingdom, which turned out to not be the case.

If God the Father is truly of such awesome and splendid magnificence then this alone should be the pivotal point on which to base a relationship. For every man that does not hold love for God in their hearts obviously is in need of more information, more revelation, a greater understanding of Gods Love, not condemnation. To not know the Creator is not a character flaw but moreover a condition of circumstance and opportunity.

To Gabby,
"Those of us who read the op are wondering if we are talking to an antichrist who is making accusations towards a God that he thinks is hateful, or a lost and hurting soul that is seeking salvation, or the devils advocate."

Even though my intent may be yet somewhat obscure you are out of line. This is a mean and cruel thing to put on anyone. You obviously used the most volatile language you could muster. Did it make you feel better for having viciously attacked me with such vile words?

Do you think just because you did not use any foul language that this is any less than a brutally demeaning and slanderous attack? Do you really believe that as long as you keep it within the confines of your religious parameters that this sort of thing is condoned of Christ? Would you think it all right of me to accuse you of being 'a woman of questionable virtue' on the basis that I don't know or understand you? That would be most unfair of me and I apologize for using such strong words but I think you should know somewhat of the slap in the face it is to be call the 'antichrist’. Did you mean for me to gather the conclusion that you are a mean spirited and vengeful person suffering with delusion of grandeur? This seems to be what you are portraying.

My first reaction to your attack was anger, to mask the hurt feelings. Even though I don't know you as any more than words on a screen coming from somewhere out there I can deduce that there is a human being at the other end of these words. Knowing what I do of life and people I think I can safely assume that you are a good and decent person. But you in no wise are any better than those you think to condemn. In the sight of God our Creator all men are equal as one of His creation. Do not assume that God holds any greater or lesser love for one over another. I should think that to God every lost and helpless soul is held in the highest of regard. Did Jesus not teach that the Shepard left the 'ninety and nine' to search out the 'one' that is lost? Not because you or I or they are worthy but because God the Father is worthy.

As far as the price of tea I don't know. My objective is this: I meet a lot of people who refuse to hear anything concerning God the Father because all they have ever been exposed to is the fear mongering of how God has it out for all who fail to comply. They have been presented with the threats of rejection and eternal death unless they start obeying some basic rules. This is to bad because it effectively closes many doors to witnessing God's love.

These people are afraid of God and hold Him as a threat without ever being given the opportunity to know something positive, something so beautiful and promising as to attract their attention as something to hope for, to hold onto.

It is not my intent to detract anything from the Father, I wish only to know truth. As said before, if the portrayal of God the Father is not in keeping with Christ Jesus when here among men then it should be prayerfully and carefully studied and understood so as not to put an untruth to the name of God.
 
Ruben wrote:
I don't care how you color it, 'if any man dares to stand against God he does so at his own peril'. This is the ultimate after every thing is said and done man is faced with the ultimatum of obey me or die. According to which you hold as truth sinners will either burn a painful death for a measured time or forever.
Click to expand...

This is according to Jesus:

"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. Luke 13:28

and it's eternal:

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Matthew 25:46

Ruben wrote:
Isn't it a shame that what God the Father is offering is so unlovely that if you don't accept it you don't deserve it and you die. But according to what a whole lot of people embrace as absolute truth is exactly this.
Click to expand...

What is unlovely? The free gift of eternal life? The choice to accept or reject that?

Ruben wrote:
I say that those who are portraying Jehovah as such are committing a grievous error. Mankind, in his limited thinking has to view their God as angry and vengeful. This is not what Jesus portrayed. The Son of the living God was about love not rules and condemnation. He was about salvation though loving Him, not crawling to the Cross, which is most commendable, but coming to a full understanding of the plan of salvation.
Click to expand...

May I ask how you are learing about God? Does it have anything to do with the Bible?

Can I point you to a place in the Bible where it speaks to us about the topics you've brought up or does the Bible have little validity in your eyes?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top