Who in the world falls for this?

[Uncle J]

A preacher urged his church to donate $3 million. Then he changed his story.​

(FYI, the link is to an atheist website)

Short version of the story: Nebraska preacher Hank Kunneman tells his congregation that he needs $3 million to buy a 100+ acre plot of land to expand their ministry and keep the land from falling into the hands of some unnamed evil company. And while he was at it, Kunneman said he would "cut the head off" of the Devil.

But about a week later after his followers donated $1.3 million to him, he says an "expert board" told him not to buy the property. So now he's just going to keep the money in case something else comes along. Oh, and he's still asking his followers to keep giving him even more money.

Oh, and he's also done this before (as shown in the blog post linked above).

As the author of the website put it...

Let’s recap: Last week, Hank Kunneman needed millions of dollars very quickly because God told him he needed to purchase some land before a Very Evil Organization™ got to it first. Time was of the utmost importance! He needed to steal the deal for God!!!

But it’s never smart to just rush into a multi-million dollar deal, he realized a week later, after the urgency had dissipated but also after the bags of cash had arrived.

His advisory council—a group of wise men that, for some reason, doesn’t exist anywhere on Kunneman’s church’s website—told him not to make the purchase. Got it? Weird how that same group had no problem with Kunneman asking for money for that purchase a week earlier, but what do I know about church hierarchies.

I suppose the land must not have been that important after all.

Does it matter that Very Evil Organization™ will now be able to purchase the property? We won’t talk about that. All that matters is that there’s always more real estate on the market. And, oh, by the way, can you all just keep throwing money Hank’s way? He needs another $700,000 real soon…​

So here's my issue...the blog author says he feels sad for the people who sent money to Kunneman, pointing to how "Kunneman specifically said in his Sep. 3 sermon (only half-jokingly) that there were likely grandmas watching him who had money hidden away in their mattresses that they ought to give to him".

I don't know if I really feel sad for the outrageously gullible people who sent this guy their money. Sure, if there are genuine cases of mentally incompetent elderly people being duped by this conman, I would see them as victims. But I'm confident that the vast, vast majority of the money came from fully competent, aware, and functional adults. And I simply do not feel sorry or sad for such people at all. My view is if you're dumb enough to fall for this sort of nonsense and actually give your money away to people like that, go right ahead. Just don't ask me to care or feel sorry for you.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno

It’s a dirty business. I’m not into identifying victims etc and deciding who deserves sympathy and such at least…

Not in those cases. Just..dirty. Immoral repugnant and not remotely compatible with Christian values.

 

[Uncle J]

I dunno

It’s a dirty business. I’m not into identifying victims etc and deciding who deserves sympathy and such at least…

Not in those cases. Just..dirty. Immoral repugnant and not remotely compatible with Christian values.

But if it's not compatible with Christian values, why is it so common? Preachers who grift their congregations are all over the place...Kenneth Copeland's infamous plea for millions to buy private jets, Jim Bakker still having followers who give him money even after he served time in prison for fraud, Peter Popoff still raking in the donations after being exposed as a complete fraud.

I get why conmen con....it's what they do. What I don't get is the number of apparently very gullible and (quite frankly) stupid people who line up to throw their money at them. If it was just a handful, I'd be more like....meh. But apparently there are enough out there to support multi-millionaire lifestyles for several Christian preachers.

I've sometimes thought that if I were less ethical, I could see doing something like this. I'd probably be one of those "end times" preachers, so I could always point to whatever's going on in the middle east and then say things are "imminent", "just around the corner", etc., and rake in the money. But I doubt I'd be able to live with myself. I'd like to think I was raised better.

 

[jasonc]

Should be a crime in that what money is gained by a non profit must be accounted for and used for as such .

 

[Hopeful 2]

But if it's not compatible with Christian values, why is it so common? Preachers who grift their congregations are all over the place...Kenneth Copeland's infamous plea for millions to buy private jets, Jim Bakker still having followers who give him money even after he served time in prison for fraud, Peter Popoff still raking in the donations after being exposed as a complete fraud.

I get why conmen con....it's what they do. What I don't get is the number of apparently very gullible and (quite frankly) stupid people who line up to throw their money at them. If it was just a handful, I'd be more like....meh. But apparently there are enough out there to support multi-millionaire lifestyles for several Christian preachers.

I've sometimes thought that if I were less ethical, I could see doing something like this. I'd probably be one of those "end times" preachers, so I could always point to whatever's going on in the middle east and then say things are "imminent", "just around the corner", etc., and rake in the money. But I doubt I'd be able to live with myself. I'd like to think I was raised better.

The only reason there are any false churches at all is because people don't want to submit to the God of the real church.
They feel comfortable in groups, surrounded by other sinner.

 

[Uncle J]

The only reason there are any false churches at all is because people don't want to submit to the God of the real church.
They feel comfortable in groups, surrounded by other sinner.

I don't understand. What specifically makes these churches "false"? That they ask for money?

Also, I thought Christianity teaches that everyone is a sinner, so doesn't that mean every church congregation is sinners surrounded by other sinners?

 

[Uncle J]

Should be a crime in that what money is gained by a non profit must be accounted for and used for as such .

Too many loopholes specific to religious organizations.

 

[Uncle J]

Should be a crime in that what money is gained by a non profit must be accounted for and used for as such .

From this BBC article:

"A couple of years later, the Federal Communications Commission reportedly came close to introducing a "truth-in-advertising" clause for religious solicitations. This would have meant that any claims of boosting finances or curing disease would have to be verifiable, and Ole took various trips to Washington to lobby for it.
Ultimately the idea was dropped, which Ole puts down to the fact that the Republicans won the House of Representatives in 1994, with the help of votes from the religious right...

...Pete says that just over a decade ago there was great excitement within the foundation, when the US Senate's Finance Committee began to question whether evangelists were taking advantage of their tax-exempt status to break Internal Revenue Service (IRS) guidelines.

While other tax-exempt organisations - notably charities - must at least fill in a basic form, known as the 990, churches don't have to. This means they are not required to detail their top employees' earnings or list how much is spent on philanthropic projects. Their inner workings can be entirely unknown.

But in 2007 the Senate committee appeared to think that some ministries were abusing this privilege and violating an IRS rule that church earnings may not "unreasonably benefit" an individual.

The Trinity Foundation shared all its research with the committee, and attended meetings with its officials.
The group - led by Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley - decided to focus on six well-known figures: Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn and Paula White - who is now President Trump's spiritual adviser.
All six denied wrongdoing. Four failed to co-operate satisfactorily, according to the committee (White, Copeland, Dollar and Long). Larry had donated to three of them.

"We really thought it was going to come to something," says Pete.

Yet by 2011, the investigation had lost steam. Senator Grassley drew no specific conclusions. Instead he asked an evangelical group - the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) - to study ways to spur "self-reform" among ministries.

"The whole thing frittered away," says Pete. He believes the 2008 economic crash played a part; the financial world suddenly had much bigger issues to deal with. "But we were extremely disappointed. After years of hanging on, it felt like they just punted the ball."

The ECFA refused a BBC request for an interview, but said it stood by past statements on its website. In 2009, it told Senator Grassley that filing full tax returns would be an "intrusion on the most intimate recesses of church administration".

The Senate committee has shown no sign of taking up the subject again, and no government agency has taken a strong interest in it.

Paid-for television channels also fall outside the remit of the national regulator, the Federal Communications Coommission - unlike in the UK, where Ofcom might step in."

 

[jasonc]

P0

Too many loopholes specific to religious organizations.

No.they account.and this doesn't happen to veterans see the wounded warriors for that .CEO charged and convicted .

 

[Uncle J]

P0
No.they account.and this doesn't happen to veterans see the wounded warriors for that .CEO charged and convicted .

See here

• Based on IRS regulations, churches (including integrated auxiliaries and conventions or associations of churches) that meet the requirements of 501(c)(3) status are not required to file an annual return or notice with the IRS. Therefore, these organizations are exempt from filing annual returns.
• Also, they are not subjected to automatic revocation of exemption for failure to file.

 

[Corn Pop]

Some people get brainwashed and manipulated easy and thats why people get sucked in easy.

I dont like to judge at or laugh at suckers in false churches because they personally give out of good faith and believe there donations are going towards good things or helping others, so thats a good practice, they just idiots thats all.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I don't understand. What specifically makes these churches "false"? That they ask for money?

What makes them false is that they lie about their need of and use of money.

Also, I thought Christianity teaches that everyone is a sinner, so doesn't that mean every church congregation is sinners surrounded by other sinners?

Everyone receives the gospel as a sinner, but the next thing they learn is repentance FROM sin.
If one turns from sin they become ex-sinners.
A true turn from sin, and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, makes a man a sanctified vessel fit for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38 spells it out in order.

 

[Christian Saboteur]

A preacher urged his church to donate $3 million. Then he changed his story.​

(FYI, the link is to an atheist website)

Short version of the story: Nebraska preacher Hank Kunneman tells his congregation that he needs $3 million to buy a 100+ acre plot of land to expand their ministry and keep the land from falling into the hands of some unnamed evil company. And while he was at it, Kunneman said he would "cut the head off" of the Devil.

But about a week later after his followers donated $1.3 million to him, he says an "expert board" told him not to buy the property. So now he's just going to keep the money in case something else comes along. Oh, and he's still asking his followers to keep giving him even more money.

Oh, and he's also done this before (as shown in the blog post linked above).

As the author of the website put it...

Let’s recap: Last week, Hank Kunneman needed millions of dollars very quickly because God told him he needed to purchase some land before a Very Evil Organization™ got to it first. Time was of the utmost importance! He needed to steal the deal for God!!!​

​

But it’s never smart to just rush into a multi-million dollar deal, he realized a week later, after the urgency had dissipated but also after the bags of cash had arrived.​

​

His advisory council—a group of wise men that, for some reason, doesn’t exist anywhere on Kunneman’s church’s website—told him not to make the purchase. Got it? Weird how that same group had no problem with Kunneman asking for money for that purchase a week earlier, but what do I know about church hierarchies.​

​

I suppose the land must not have been that important after all.​

​

Does it matter that Very Evil Organization™ will now be able to purchase the property? We won’t talk about that. All that matters is that there’s always more real estate on the market. And, oh, by the way, can you all just keep throwing money Hank’s way? He needs another $700,000 real soon…​

So here's my issue...the blog author says he feels sad for the people who sent money to Kunneman, pointing to how "Kunneman specifically said in his Sep. 3 sermon (only half-jokingly) that there were likely grandmas watching him who had money hidden away in their mattresses that they ought to give to him".

I don't know if I really feel sad for the outrageously gullible people who sent this guy their money. Sure, if there are genuine cases of mentally incompetent elderly people being duped by this conman, I would see them as victims. But I'm confident that the vast, vast majority of the money came from fully competent, aware, and functional adults. And I simply do not feel sorry or sad for such people at all. My view is if you're dumb enough to fall for this sort of nonsense and actually give your money away to people like that, go right ahead. Just don't ask me to care or feel sorry for you.

None

 

[Christian Saboteur]

A preacher urged his church to donate $3 million. Then he changed his story.​

(FYI, the link is to an atheist website)

Short version of the story: Nebraska preacher Hank Kunneman tells his congregation that he needs $3 million to buy a 100+ acre plot of land to expand their ministry and keep the land from falling into the hands of some unnamed evil company. And while he was at it, Kunneman said he would "cut the head off" of the Devil.

But about a week later after his followers donated $1.3 million to him, he says an "expert board" told him not to buy the property. So now he's just going to keep the money in case something else comes along. Oh, and he's still asking his followers to keep giving him even more money.

Oh, and he's also done this before (as shown in the blog post linked above).

As the author of the website put it...

Let’s recap: Last week, Hank Kunneman needed millions of dollars very quickly because God told him he needed to purchase some land before a Very Evil Organization™ got to it first. Time was of the utmost importance! He needed to steal the deal for God!!!​

​

But it’s never smart to just rush into a multi-million dollar deal, he realized a week later, after the urgency had dissipated but also after the bags of cash had arrived.​

​

His advisory council—a group of wise men that, for some reason, doesn’t exist anywhere on Kunneman’s church’s website—told him not to make the purchase. Got it? Weird how that same group had no problem with Kunneman asking for money for that purchase a week earlier, but what do I know about church hierarchies.​

​

I suppose the land must not have been that important after all.​

​

Does it matter that Very Evil Organization™ will now be able to purchase the property? We won’t talk about that. All that matters is that there’s always more real estate on the market. And, oh, by the way, can you all just keep throwing money Hank’s way? He needs another $700,000 real soon…​

So here's my issue...the blog author says he feels sad for the people who sent money to Kunneman, pointing to how "Kunneman specifically said in his Sep. 3 sermon (only half-jokingly) that there were likely grandmas watching him who had money hidden away in their mattresses that they ought to give to him".

I don't know if I really feel sad for the outrageously gullible people who sent this guy their money. Sure, if there are genuine cases of mentally incompetent elderly people being duped by this conman, I would see them as victims. But I'm confident that the vast, vast majority of the money came from fully competent, aware, and functional adults. And I simply do not feel sorry or sad for such people at all. My view is if you're dumb enough to fall for this sort of nonsense and actually give your money away to people like that, go right ahead. Just don't ask me to care or feel sorry for you.

None of this is anything new,Google Elizabeth Clare Prophet,or Oral Roberts,etc.

 

[Uncle J]

What makes them false is that they lie about their need of and use of money.

What about preachers like Kenneth Copeland, who told the congregation that he needed money to buy a private jet, and after they gave him the money went out and bought a jet? He didn't lie, did he?

Everyone receives the gospel as a sinner, but the next thing they learn is repentance FROM sin.
If one turns from sin they become ex-sinners.
A true turn from sin, and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, makes a man a sanctified vessel fit for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 2:38 spells it out in order.

So converted Christians stop sinning altogether? That's not what I was taught in my family's church.

 

[Uncle J]

None of this is anything new,Google Elizabeth Clare Prophet,or Oral Roberts,etc.

Yup, and that's kinda the point. You'd think people would learn from the past, but here we are.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What about preachers like Kenneth Copeland, who told the congregation that he needed money to buy a private jet, and after they gave him the money went out and bought a jet? He didn't lie, did he?

I guess that would depend on his motives in asking for the money and what he eventually did with it.

So converted Christians stop sinning altogether?

Yes, as that is the fruit of repentance from sin.

That's not what I was taught in my family's church.

You know it now.

You don't really believe that Jesus suffered, and died, and never committed sin, so we could just keep on sinning, do you ?
Where is the love of God in that kind of life ?

 

[Uncle J]

I guess that would depend on his motives in asking for the money and what he eventually did with it.

Like I said, Copeland said he needed the money to buy a private jet, and when his followers gave him the money that's what he bought.

Yes, as that is the fruit of repentance from sin.

You know it now.

You don't really believe that Jesus suffered, and died, and never committed sin, so we could just keep on sinning, do you ?
Where is the love of God in that kind of life ?

That's really odd, since I've never known, or known of, a single person who lives a perfect life 100% free from sin. If Christians never sin, then what's the purpose of asking for forgiveness? And if a Christian accidentally sins, are they no longer Christian and must re-convert all over again?

 

[Hidden In Him]

A preacher urged his church to donate $3 million. Then he changed his story.​

(FYI, the link is to an atheist website)

Short version of the story: Nebraska preacher Hank Kunneman tells his congregation that he needs $3 million to buy a 100+ acre plot of land to expand their ministry and keep the land from falling into the hands of some unnamed evil company. And while he was at it, Kunneman said he would "cut the head off" of the Devil.

But about a week later after his followers donated $1.3 million to him, he says an "expert board" told him not to buy the property. So now he's just going to keep the money in case something else comes along. Oh, and he's still asking his followers to keep giving him even more money.

Oh, and he's also done this before (as shown in the blog post linked above).

Kunnaman is a quack with zero prophetic gift. He was a leading voice for the Faith movement in "prophesying " that Trump would win the 2020 election, only it was power of confession garbage and trying to use "their faith" to make it happen rather than operating in anything resembling genuine Biblical prophecy, so when they fell flat on their faces he was a leading voice in BLAMING his congregation and the followers of other Faith teachers for "not believing hard enough," as if it was the responsibility of their followers to make their quack "prophecies" come to pass.

So what happens? Two years later his funding is drying up. And what happens when a religious quack gets in trouble financially and sees his "ministry" potentially going under? He starts conning his flock to keep himself and his religious fraud afloat.

Kunnaman is a disgrace to Christianity, and his gullible followers are aiding and abetting him to continue fleecing everyone with fake dreams and fake "prophecy" and false teaching, and when he has ripped enough people off, eventually the light will come on.

Until then, he will keep working his con and succeeding at it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Like I said, Copeland said he needed the money to buy a private jet, and when his followers gave him the money that's what he bought.

Then that wasn't a sin.

That's really odd, since I've never known, or known of, a single person who lives a perfect life 100% free from sin.

Now, you can say you do.

If Christians never sin, then what's the purpose of asking for forgiveness?

Receiving forgiveness !
If one is truly sorry for their sins, they won't keep doing them. (2 Cor 7:10)

And if a Christian accidentally sins, are they no longer Christian and must re-convert all over again?

There are no accidental sins. (James 1:14-15)